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richk449
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:54 am    Post subject: The end of secularism Reply with quote

https://unherd.com/2020/08/the-end-of-secularism-is-nigh/

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Last week, on 5 August, the Prime Minister of India laid a foundation stone and helped bury a distinctive period in global history. Narendra Modi had travelled to Ayodhya, a city long identified by Hindus with one of their most beloved gods. Lord Rama — avatar of Vishnu and hero of the Sanskrit epic, the Ramayana — was said to have ruled within its walls as the very model of those who uphold truth and justice. Like Camelot, the court of Rama glimmers tantalisingly in the imaginings of those who fall beneath its spell: the reminder of a vanished golden age, the hope that it might come again.

In recent decades, the mingled regret and yearning that the memory of Rama’s capital can inspire among Hindus had come to be focused on one particular location in the modern city of Ayodhya: the Ram Janmabhoomi, the ‘birthplace of Rama’. At the moment, nothing serves to mark the sacred spot. But soon enough that will change. A great complex of buildings will rise. As Modi, officially declaring the process of construction begun, put it: “A great temple will now be built for our Lord Rama.”

A fortnight earlier, the President of Turkey had celebrated a similar reconsecration. In 1453, when the Christian capital of Constantinople fell to the Ottomans, its most stupefying building, the great cathedral of Hagia Sophia, had been converted into a mosque, and duly served for almost half a millennium as a monument to the triumph of Islam over a defeated and superceded order. Then, in 1935, a decade and more after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire and its replacement within its heartlands by a Turkish republic, the mosque of Ayasofya was turned into a museum. So, for decades, it remained. Then, this summer, the museum once again became a mosque. On 24 July, Hagia Sophia opened for Friday prayers. “It is breaking away from its chains of captivity,” President Erdogan declared rhapsodically. “It was the greatest dream of our youth. It was the yearning of our people and it has been accomplished.”
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notageek
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup. Pretty much. The government is pretty close to declaring single religion state soon.

Personally I don't like it.

But are US and UK secular states?
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richk449
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
Yup. Pretty much. The government is pretty close to declaring single religion state soon.

Personally I don't like it.

But are US and UK secular states?

You lived in the US. What do you think?
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notageek
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not secular at-all. Banknotes with "in God we trust" is a dead giveaway.
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Koala Kid
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
Not secular at-all. Banknotes with "in God we trust" is a dead giveaway.

it's all symbolism. the real test would be like this:
how it impacts your everyday life? can you marry in civil union? can you be buried the way you'd prefer? can you manage your life without religion?
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ulenrich
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Koala Kid wrote:
notageek wrote:
Not secular at-all. Banknotes with "in God we trust" is a dead giveaway.

it's all symbolism. the real test would be like this:
how it impacts your everyday life? can you marry in civil union? can you be buried the way you'd prefer? can you manage your life without religion?
There is no day in America the Jesus' commandments are not broken, especially in our forum is broken the bolded:
Romans 13 wrote:
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
But that is a thousand years with accusing the vikings and muslims to murder christians, the jews drinking christian blood and for the plague, the witches to dance with the devil and ... now Qanon again with children blood.
As a pretext for mass murder the false witness was fatal in Bosnia, Ruanda, Soviet, Germany, Armenians in the last century. Our tolerance with conspiracy theories is a reaction to the totalitarianism that came with communism. Since then free speech is the most important. But this wasn't true for Hollywood before WW2. The filmmakes had very strict guidelines back then to hold morality up high:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Code_Hollywood
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_Picture_Production_Code
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etnull
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Governments are utilising any tool at their disposal to stich and hold countries together in such chaotic tmes. Religion is just another such tool. It's a big issue in Russia as well, I'm personally not against religion in itself, people should be free to believe, practice and express themselves in any non violent or damaging to others way. But, why the hell can't I, the same way express my true beliefs, by naming what any religion truly is - A CULT with stupid rites and dogmas. If I say so publically I can get criminal charges for offending some 'belivers'. Funny how I give them freedom to believe in any bullshit they want, yet they don't give me freedom to believe that they are idiots under an influence of a cult.
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ulenrich
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@etnull, as a leftie I like when Karl Marx says: "Religion is opium for (against) the people".
(At the time he witnessed the Brits bring down the most dominant economy (of all future and past times ever) by simply being drug dealers in Hong Kong.)

As a german guy I learned we have to stand responsible for history. In a christian culture you stand on grounds on that history. I have some non marxian thoughts about it. If you are interested in the wisdom of history I could tell you why and how you can see christian religion different:

Manhatten Project for monotheism in the hellenistic period, human sacrifice
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Religion is the opiate of the masses. Bald-faced lies and fake history are the opiates of the Marxist.
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richk449
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
Not secular at-all. Banknotes with "in God we trust" is a dead giveaway.

Hey, but it's also got Freemason symbolism. So just like America, it's a bit of a mixed bag.
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ulenrich
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bones McCracker wrote:
Religion is the opiate of the masses. Bald-faced lies and fake history are the opiates of the Marxist.
I cannot read your mind. You have to explicate further. (Is it a word: bald-faced ?)
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cokey
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Secularism died with Christopher Hitchens
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richk449
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokey wrote:
Secularism died with Christopher Hitchens

... and was replaced with ...
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Old School
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:
Bones McCracker wrote:
Religion is the opiate of the masses. Bald-faced lies and fake history are the opiates of the Marxist.
I cannot read your mind. You have to explicate further. (Is it a word: bald-faced ?)
American idiom. Bald faced lie means it is an obvious lie, usually said with contempt to the hearer.
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