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feam
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:43 pm    Post subject: What in your opinion makes Gentoo a successful project? Reply with quote

Even though Gentoo is not that popular between linux users, the project is really solid. Why ?

I know that maintain a big project like this requires a lot of effort and dedication for years. Is this the "secret" or there is something else?

This probably sounds like silly questions but I really would like to understand what makes Gentoo great.


Last edited by feam on Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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halcon
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:23 pm    Post subject: Re: What in your opinion makes Gentoo a successful project?? Reply with quote

feam wrote:
Gentoo is not that popular between linux users

Why do you think so? If you come to this conclusion looking at Distrowatch "page hit ranking" (currently 46), I think that it does not reflect the real picture. As far as I know, Gentoo is popular enough between linux users: the more experienced users are, the more popular Gentoo is among them. A lot of servers run Gentoo; there is a lot of Gentoo-based distros-derivatives. I doubt that there will be 45 distros with so much derivatives...

One of the main reasons for the transition from Windows to Linux is wanting more control over the system. However, some modern trends in Linux contradict this desire. One of my friends said several years ago: "a Linux with systemd starts to be like Android..." Gentoo is one of the few distros that can get rid of systemd. In this sense the transition from a systemd-forced Linux to Gentoo is the next step, after transition from Windows. It's why experienced users like Gentoo more.

I remember that phrase: "Nobody leaves Gentoo. We know you'll be back, just not when :)"
(source)
I understand it so: after feeling the real freedom in Gentoo one will miss this feeling even with more bells and whistles.
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feam
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Why do you think so? If you come to this conclusion looking at Distrowatch "page hit ranking" (currently 46), I think that it does not reflect the real picture. As far as I know, Gentoo is popular enough between linux users: the more experienced users are, the more popular Gentoo is among them.


Its just my perception from a user viewpoint. Besides, there is always much less experienced people than begginers and, if Gentoo is for experienced users, that for itself is enought to make Gentoo less popular, and that is not a bad thing, its just an observation, specially because theres a lot of trully advanced users running other distros.

Quote:
A lot of servers run Gentoo; there is a lot of Gentoo-based distros-derivatives. I doubt that there will be 45 distros with so much derivatives...


Yes, and that's the point of my question. How Gentoo became so important so such things exists ? You gave a good point talking about the control and freedom that Gentoo give to its users and that's is probably the trivial answer that I didnt think about before create this topic. Thanks for answering


Last edited by feam on Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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halcon
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

feam wrote:
if Gentoo is for experienced users, that for itself is enought to make Gentoo less popular

I cannot agree with this. Gentoo wasn't my first distro, but I eventually came to it.
How many people had a BMW first car?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

feam,

Gentoo is popular precisely because its not a distro.

Gentoo is the Portage package manager and the ::gentoo ebuild repository.
Everything else is upstream.

Gentoo is a toolkit you use to design and install your own distro.
No two Gentoo installs are alike.

Gentoo has a steep learning curve because as the distro designer, you must make all the decisions that binary distro packagers have already made for their users.
If you come from a binary distro. That can be a bit of a shock.
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Ant P.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be careful of measuring "popularity" by some arbitrary nonsense metric like physical media releases, volume of complaints, or some page hit counter website from the early 2000s.
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feam
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
How many people had a BMW first car?


I can see your point know. Thanks for clarify =D

Quote:

Gentoo is popular precisely because its not a distro.

Gentoo is the Portage package manager and the ::gentoo ebuild repository.
Everything else is upstream.

Gentoo is a toolkit you use to design and install your own distro.
No two Gentoo installs are alike.

Gentoo has a steep learning curve because as the distro designer, you must make all the decisions that binary distro packagers have already made for their users.
If you come from a binary distro. That can be a bit of a shock.


Mr NeddySeagoon, got it :o :o :o

Thanks for the explanation!

Quote:
Be careful of measuring "popularity" by some arbitrary nonsense metric like physical media releases, volume of complaints, or some page hit counter website from the early 2000s.


lol, indeed =P
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pjp
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
Gentoo is popular precisely because its not a distro.

Gentoo is the Portage package manager and the ::gentoo ebuild repository.
Everything else is upstream.

Gentoo is a toolkit you use to design and install your own distro.
No two Gentoo installs are alike.

Gentoo has a steep learning curve because as the distro designer, you must make all the decisions that binary distro packagers have already made for their users.
If you come from a binary distro. That can be a bit of a shock.
I only sort of understood what was meant by "meta" distro. Other than having to manually configure and install Gentoo when compared to a binary distro, it didn't seem that much different to me. It wasn't until I recently started to try using binaries built from the toolkit that it became more apparent what was meant by such descriptions of Gentoo. I'm still working through what to do with that new understanding.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think general Gentoo users should be made more aware of the downstream projects that are built on Gentoo, for example Chrome OS, sysrescuecd, etc.
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gorg86
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3 things:
-Portage is great, I would even go that far and say it's the best package manager
-streamers that get trolled into installing it live
-Bones McCracker's sarcastic comments
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Athenian200
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say that what keeps me coming back to Gentoo is that you can learn a lot about how Linux distros are constructed, and it's sort of like Linux from Scratch on steroids. Gentoo is also one of the few distros that actually gives you the full freedom offered by the ability to build all system packages yourself from source.

These days I actually use something called OpenIndiana more because I don't really like the way the Linux kernel is going, and feel if anything it's too dominant. But when I do use Linux, it's usually Gentoo because of the amount of flexibility it permits and because the experience working with something like portage is very helpful if you ever want to move on to any Unix-based kernel that isn't Linux, because a lot of those will often expect you to be able to build the tree using scripts if you want to contribute. Messing with Gentoo ebuilds when they break with unusual configurations is a great way to move from being a norrmal Linux user to figuring out how to build packages from source on other Unix-like operating systems.
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russK
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
feam,

Gentoo is popular precisely because its not a distro.

NeddySeagoon,

I see what you did there.

IMHO, portage profiles are like mini distros inside a meta-Linux thing that pulls in upstream projects, and allows DIY customization with USE flags and also do it yourself ebuilds.

gentoo is amazing :D there's nothing else quite like it.

Regards,
russK
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

successful project^H^H^H^H^H^H^H ecosystem

- using open source code as _origin_ of all software
- using a framework (portage) to deal with among of complex/different source code and compile options
- using optimal binary per hardware
- using same config/layout for decades, no distro fascistic
- gentoo fit it, LFS is too minimalistic
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sitquietly
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:29 pm    Post subject: Re: What in your opinion makes Gentoo a successful project? Reply with quote

feam wrote:
Gentoo ... project is really solid. Why ? ... what makes Gentoo great.


The Gentoo Philosophy was stated at the beginning, giving the project a strong ethical base.
Quote:
The goal of Gentoo is to design tools and systems that allow a user to do that work as pleasantly and efficiently as possible, as they see fit. Our tools should be a joy to use, and should help the user to appreciate the richness of the Linux and free software community, and the flexibility of free software.


That ethical orientation has allowed the project to stay focused on the details of its mission and largely avoid meta-discussions and meandering developments. I think you can see that the developers and users are focused on the details of fulfilling that mission by checking the quality of presentations on the developer blogs, the detail and respect given to the bug reports, and the extensive cooperation that users give one another in the forums, AND the work put into Gentoo Linux Enhancement Proposals. Those GLEPs represent a lot of work and always amaze me in achieving clarity of thought on difficult technical and project management decisions. Read a few gleps...

The project had a good beginning and has stayed on mission so the quality is very high. I think Gentoo may have the highest "customer satisfaction" rating on distrowatch.com
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:51 pm    Post subject: Re: What in your opinion makes Gentoo a successful project? Reply with quote

sitquietly wrote:

I think you can see that the developers and users are focused on the details of fulfilling that mission by checking the quality of presentations on the developer blogs, the detail and respect given to the bug reports, and the extensive cooperation that users give one another in the forums,

The project had a good beginning and has stayed on mission so the quality is very high. I think Gentoo may have the highest "customer satisfaction" rating on distrowatch.com


Someone gets it. I distro hopped a lot before returning to Gentoo. I obviously love the flexibility and freedom it gives me, but Gentoo's community is the best hands down. The level of support and the care taken to really dive into issues is incredible when you consider the fact that it's just a bunch of other people like you that enjoy tinkering with Linux systems. It's across the board as well. The forums are great, the people you deal with in the bug tracker are amazing, and everyone is willing to help when you are submitting your first ebuilds and making mistakes with your pull requests :D And it goes both ways. Gentoo users (especially on the bug tracker) will do everything they can to help the devs with issues.

I hate reading other distro boards where people talk down to each other and make newcomers feel stupid for not understanding how to troubleshoot certain issues.

I even try to use Gentoo derivatives when I need a different distro now. Great out-of the box live cd, Sabayo. Kali? No thanks, Pentoo.
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heaped
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

in my opinion its the extensive combustibility of everything, literally compiling every down to the kernel.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flexibility is my secret word for tonight :lol:
Thks 4 ur attention, interest & support
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