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OneirosAlpha
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:03 pm    Post subject: File Sharing with Windows Machines Reply with quote

I have a very old Gentoo machine with KDE that I use only as a file server on my LAN.
Recently, I wanted to share files remotely as well. Unfortunately, my gentoo/KDE is way too old and I couldn't install the sharing program (ZeroTier).
While attempting to install ZeroTier, I must have changed a setting somewhere, because now I can't see my shared folder from any of the other computers on the network.

Some background: I haven't logged into this gentoo machine for probably over a decade, and I wasn't the person who set it up in the first place. I don't really know how to get around in gentoo/kde very well. I'm mostly a Windows user. Honestly, I'm not even sure what info I need to provide to get help. Sorry!
Here are a few things that might be helpful:
Gentoo version: 2.6.19-gentoo-r5
KDE version: 3.5

I'm pretty sure I have all my Network settings correct, because I can ping the gentoo machine from all the others and I can ping all the others from the gentoo. I just can't access my file sharing.
I have tried both Simple Sharing and Advanced Sharing, but the results are the same.
I am getting an error when I try to browse the LAN from the gentoo machine that LISA is not working; not sure if that is something I need.

Any help would be greatly appreciated! Let me know if I need to provide any other information.
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halcon
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi OneirosAlpha,

While I unfortunately cannot help you with KDE and LISA, I'd like to say that sharing files remotely from a system so old as that (linux kernel 2.6.19), IMHO, is not a good idea... What will you say about such a challenge as reinstalling Gentoo? There wouldn't be need in KDE (and any desktop at all) for sharing files. Just a base system (default profile) and, for example, samba+minidlna...
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OneirosAlpha
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi halcon,

Thanks for your reply!

The computer itself (not just the OS) is very old; I'm thinking from mid-2000s or earlier. So, I'm not sure really how upgradeable it is.

I wouldn't mind upgrading, but I'm very worried about losing all my files if I do something wrong.

A big problem is that a few of the HDDs are in some sort of RAID configuration. I figure that if I screwed up the file sharing already, trying to mess with that stuff is a recipe for disaster. :)

File sharing was working fine until I changed something. I just can't figure out how to get it working again. I'm not sure if LISA is even the issue.
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halcon
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OneirosAlpha wrote:
The computer itself (not just the OS) is very old; I'm thinking from mid-2000s or earlier. So, I'm not sure really how upgradeable it is.

I am not an expert in that but I think a modern system without DE (and without X) should not consume more resources than a 15-years old KDE... I think, if it gets installed, it will work.

OneirosAlpha wrote:
I wouldn't mind upgrading, but I'm very worried about losing all my files if I do something wrong.

A big problem is that a few of the HDDs are in some sort of RAID configuration. I figure that if I screwed up the file sharing already, trying to mess with that stuff is a recipe for disaster. :)

1) Do you have some HDDs to make a full backup of that machine's user data? That backup would be useful regardless of whether are you touching the system or not.
2) Is there at least 20-30 GB unused on that machine's system disk? I am talking about a new install, not upgrading. On a new partition. In that case the old system should be untouched.
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Fitzcarraldo
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OneirosAlpha,

What method was your old Gentoo machine running KDE 3.5 using to share files successfully before you attempted to install ZeroTier on it? What sort of shares were they? Was it using Samba (SMB)? Also, what devices was that machine sharing files with? Windows machines, Mac Os machines or Linux machines? If Windows machines, what version of Windows are those machines running? Are they versions of Windows that support the SMBv1 protocol? Could it be that your old Gentoo machine is using an ancient version of Samba that uses the SMBv1 protocol? If so, SMBv1 is no longer supported by the more-recent versions of Windows 10 (Version 1709 and later). Microsoft Windows 10 has stopped supporting NetBIOS (Broadcast and WINS) and Computer Browser, so if your old Gentoo machines is using the SMBv1 protocol, that would explain why you can no longer share files with Windows 10 machines. I have not used Windows in a while, but you could try reverting your Windows machines to SMBv1 if the latest versions of Windows still allow that:

https://winaero.com/blog/enable-smb1-sharig-protocol-windows-10/

If you are using Windows 10 and the version of Windows 10 does not enable you to revert to SMBv1 then you are in trouble.

As you are not au fait with Gentoo and as you have not touched it in over a decade, I think your best bet would be to copy all your files a.s.a.p. onto a large external USB HDD if possible and to install a new NAS package that supports SMBv2/SMBv3 and WS-Discovery. The latter allows Windows 10 machines to browse SMBv2/v3 shares on Linux, as well as on Windows 10 machines that do not support SMBv1+NetBIOS+Computer Browser. Basically, using an old machine running way-out-of-date Gentoo and KDE 3.5 as a file server is extremely risky, to say the least.
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OneirosAlpha
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Fitzcarraldo,

Thanks for the info! I definitely agree that using this old machine is risky. I have been looking into just getting a new NAS and copying the files onto it, but money is tight at the moment so it might be a while until new drives and a NAS can happen for me.

The computers I was sharing with include a few Windows 10, a couple Windows 7, an old Windows Server 2003, and a Mac running OSX 10.4. None of them can view the shared folder on the gentoo machine.

I'm pretty sure the Gentoo machine was using Samba to share. The Samba The shares were pretty basic, just one HDD.
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OneirosAlpha
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Halcon,

Unfortunately I don't have anything other than a few flash drives around for extra storage, and they're not big enough to copy everything. I might try copying to a flash drive, then take the flash drive to one of the other computers, copy it over... etc. until I get everything. If I get really desperate.

I have (I think) a few HDDs on the Gentoo system. When I look in Storage, I see 3 Hard Disks. One shows (hda1), one is (hda3) and the last is (md/3). I'm not sure if these are actual physical drives or just partitions.

The (hda1) is only 99 mb, so I probably can't install much there. :) It has a few folders on it including boot, grub, and lost+found.

(hda3) has 98.6 GB free out of 108 GB total. It has folders such as bin, boot, dev, etc, home and a few more.

(md/3) has only 21 GB free out of 733.5 GB total. This one is setup as the storage drive and just has all the files I want to access.

Would adding a new installation on one of the drives (probably (hda3)) still allow me to access the files on (md/3)? Especially since I'm pretty sure (md/3) is some kind of RAID. When I look inside the computer there are 5 physical hard drives connected to the motherboard. One is using the old really wide cable and the other 4 are using the newer cable type. I can't remember what they're called.
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halcon
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OneirosAlpha wrote:
Would adding a new installation on one of the drives (probably (hda3)) still allow me to access the files on (md/3)? Especially since I'm pretty sure (md/3) is some kind of RAID. When I look inside the computer there are 5 physical hard drives connected to the motherboard. One is using the old really wide cable and the other 4 are using the newer cable type. I can't remember what they're called.

Yes, it's a RAID. md/3 is a mdadm device.

Would a new installation still allow access? Without installing and configuring mdadm properly - no. With doing that - yes.

I personally never used mdadm because I don't like RAIDs. But many people do use it.

The old wide cable - IDE (as opposed to SATA). I think it does not really matter.

Well, if there are 98.6 GB free on hda3, you could, in general, repartition the disk and start a new Gentoo installation... But please consider that it won't be easy (for the first time), straightforward (old hardware could require special tweaks) and quick (better not to be in a hurry). The disk repartioning is one of the key points as it should be done properly, in order not to damage the existing system. I would recommend to read carefully the Handbook first. Do you have some ETA for restoring access for your files (for Windows)?

Edit: You could make at least a partial backup of your old system.

This will show the size of /etc:
Code:
du -h --max-depth=0 /etc

And this will backup the full directory /etc in the file etc.tar on your flash drive (replace /path-to-your-flash-drive by the real mountpoint):
Code:
tar -cpvf /path-to-your-flash-drive/etc.tar /etc

Both commands must be run not by user, but by root (after su -).

The same can be repeated with /home, /usr, /var, /bin.
Then you would be less sensitive to possible damage of the old system.


Last edited by halcon on Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:10 pm; edited 4 times in total
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OneirosAlpha
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, haclon!

My ETA for getting the files is ASAP. :) Currently I'm able to use a flash drive to copy files I need, so I guess it's not a SUPER high priority.

Would a newer Gentoo installation be the only choice to still access my stored files? Are there easier/simpler/quicker linux distributions that would work as well or better?
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halcon
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OneirosAlpha wrote:
My ETA for getting the files is ASAP. :)

:)

OneirosAlpha wrote:
Would a newer Gentoo installation be the only choice to still access my stored files? Are there easier/simpler/quicker linux distributions that would work as well or better?

easier/simpler/quicker - Yes
as well or better - No
IMHO :)
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dmpogo
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OneirosAlpha wrote:
Hi halcon,

Thanks for your reply!

The computer itself (not just the OS) is very old; I'm thinking from mid-2000s or earlier. So, I'm not sure really how upgradeable it is.

I wouldn't mind upgrading, but I'm very worried about losing all my files if I do something wrong.

A big problem is that a few of the HDDs are in some sort of RAID configuration. I figure that if I screwed up the file sharing already, trying to mess with that stuff is a recipe for disaster. :)

File sharing was working fine until I changed something. I just can't figure out how to get it working again. I'm not sure if LISA is even the issue.



I am typing this from year 2007 machine - Intel Core 2 Duo, 8500GT or something like that nvidia card. And I have all up-to-date KDE, gcc, libc. Kernel is from 4.14 series, though.
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dmpogo
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OneirosAlpha wrote:
Halcon,

Unfortunately I don't have anything other than a few flash drives around for extra storage, and they're not big enough to copy everything. I might try copying to a flash drive, then take the flash drive to one of the other computers, copy it over... etc. until I get everything. If I get really desperate.

I have (I think) a few HDDs on the Gentoo system. When I look in Storage, I see 3 Hard Disks. One shows (hda1), one is (hda3) and the last is (md/3). I'm not sure if these are actual physical drives or just partitions.

The (hda1) is only 99 mb, so I probably can't install much there. :) It has a few folders on it including boot, grub, and lost+found.

(hda3) has 98.6 GB free out of 108 GB total. It has folders such as bin, boot, dev, etc, home and a few more.

(md/3) has only 21 GB free out of 733.5 GB total. This one is setup as the storage drive and just has all the files I want to access.

Would adding a new installation on one of the drives (probably (hda3)) still allow me to access the files on (md/3)? Especially since I'm pretty sure (md/3) is some kind of RAID. When I look inside the computer there are 5 physical hard drives connected to the motherboard. One is using the old really wide cable and the other 4 are using the newer cable type. I can't remember what they're called.



hda1 and hda3 are two partitions on drive /dev/hda . You should check what is on those partitions, by its size /dev/hda1 can be boot partition with your kernel. Type 'df' and see what is mounted there (though /dev/hda1, if it is boot partition, may be not mouted). I have a feeling that is where your current system lives, with root ( / ) probably on /dev/hda3
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dmpogo
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OneirosAlpha wrote:
Thanks, haclon!

My ETA for getting the files is ASAP. :) Currently I'm able to use a flash drive to copy files I need, so I guess it's not a SUPER high priority.

Would a newer Gentoo installation be the only choice to still access my stored files? Are there easier/simpler/quicker linux distributions that would work as well or better?


The problem with old system is that it may run fine as is, but if you need new software (or, for instance, file sharing with Windows require kernel support), then you are dealing with a need to update.
So if it has enough tools to get your files out, don't touch anything, get files out, and then decide how you want to configure your old hardware for new life if any. How large is your collection of files ?
I would consider getting USB disk and dumping them all there as the first step.
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OneirosAlpha
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks halcon and dmpogo!

Looks like the consensus is that I should get a big USB hard drive and backup everything first, then work on installing a newer OS.

I'll start reading the handbook while I'm awaiting a new drive, and hopefully it will go well!
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you can't afford an external drive but have a big enpigh HDD laying around, physical add it to the machine (Is it IDE only?) , copying the files to it, then store the HDD for safe-keeping.
The IDE is an important poiny. If your machine can't run SATA, at least with an add-in card (cheap ones are available), don't bother. I have one of these but I keep it for sentiment not for mission critical stuff.. it does run long term support kernel 4.4 which the kernel team keeps patching with security updates, and it dual boots XP on 712M RAM. But it runs an old IDE drive. 32 bit is not a show stopper for a file server but IDE is.

I also have an old Athlon 64 with SATA-1 that boot Win 7. I'm sure if you search e-bay you can find a used motherboard with decent RAM and SATA-II/III very cheap.


EDIT:
If you really want to use that old old mobo for something, it can serve as a DNS/DHCP server for your local system. Then you don't have to worry about say DLInk snooping on your DNS requests, plus have snappier response.
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jonathan183
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:53 am    Post subject: Try a livecd with a modern version of samba ? Reply with quote

If I were in your position I'd try a livecd with a more recent version of samba available rather than start messing with the existing OS - just make sure you mount partitions read only and copy your data somewhere else before you start playing with the installed OS ...
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