Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
God bless 1984 and newspeak
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next  
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Off the Wall
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
noyb
n00b
n00b


Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 0

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:
@noyb
Conservative people may be horryfied when they see so many young folks seemingly want to become the other gender. The most of them seek a way to get the exceptional status. This nurtures a pandemic of narcism and seems the valuable way to get a living on Youtube for many. That acknowledged but there are woman brains in man bodies, like you had to live. The opposite direction also ...


Conservative people are horrified because trans people change the social dynamic... They'll turn to "but biology says XX and XY" and not realize that's a 5th grade understanding of what really goes on, or they'll quote their bible, or whatever... The whole world must match their world view and never change.

But progressives are just as bad. Deviate from the politically correct accepted standard and they'll run you through faster than a conservative can even call you the devil. Never mind the inconsistencies, the whole point is to tear down the traditional to force "progress" at all costs. I've had numerous trans people threaten to harm me for not toeing the line and all manner of social justice warriors hate me because I don't live on their plantation (see black conservatives for another group that is hated by the left).

and yes, there are just as many trans men as there are trans women... but they get less notoriety because they're seen as a "butch feminist empowering herself by taking on the patriarchy" until testosterone does enough (and testosterone is far more powerful than estradiol) that he simply disappears into the crowd of "just another guy."

Trans women are singled out because of the fear of self-perceived homophobia if a guy is attracted to her (and this is one of the reasons why the T IS relevant to the LGB and also one of the biggest reasons why trans women get murdered), because taking estradiol after testosterone puberty is less effective than taking testosterone after estradiol puberty so it is harder to pass and/or achieve stealth, because becoming a woman is seen as giving up power, etc. In popular media, trans women tend to fall into one of three tropes: the trap out to trick men into having sex with her, the predator donning a disguise to hunt among the sheep, or the pathetic that needs to be mocked... and the vast, vast majority of times you'll encounter trans women in media often includes at least one of those tropes, even when they're supposedly portraying her in a positive light. Trans guys rarely even appear in media because people don't realize they exist since they don't fit into one of those 3 tropes.

Even when I do find a movie that portrays a trans woman in a sympathetic and realistic light, like the movie Boy Meets Girl, even using a trans actress, they still felt the need to throw in a gratuitous full frontal shot during an emotional moment to throw a bone to the wolves, when an over the shoulder shot of the man's facial expressions would have been a much more powerful options.

The simple fact is, our actually narrative often doesn't reach the masses precisely because it would build sympathy and understanding and the two extremes wouldn't be able to use us for their political benefit.


ulenrich wrote:

To this day I try to imagine in a woman the man when falling in love: Do I like her character in the other gender? So, it was not a new thing for me, that a man brain may be in the body of a woman. You can train yourself to see it. I learned the most beautiful women are moving their bodies often in a very maskuline way. You can hear them walk, if they have the appartment above.


We all take on our own roles and expressions in life... and as long as someone isn't harming someone else, it's perfectly fine to be yourself, whatever that is... and few people are 100% masculine or 100% feminine... it's often more socially acceptable for women to express some of her masculine traits, but because of homophobia, men often feel forced to hide some of their more feminine traits. As I've mentioned, I'm far more feminine than the typical woman today, and that's just who I am. I don't consider myself any more or less of a woman than a butch lesbian just because I border on something closer to a Barbie stereotype.

ulenrich wrote:

To change my body is beyond me, not even a tattoo.
I have one critical thought against changing the body in general: When watching pornographic videos nowadays I rarily see natural bodies. Mostly I can see disguised bodies with fashionable hips, lips and breasts. In future also transformed ears, arms and foreheads .... If a porno shows a natural woman this video is called "her first time". For sure you can see this same woman a month later in a "body a la mode". This is disgusting because it hides the beauty of the body invented by nature. Three thousand years of art to catch this beauty are forgotten.


Porn is all about selling things to the male gaze... even most lesbian porn isn't made for women, it's made for guys that want to imagine all lesbians are like me. It's kind of amusing - I'm the guy's imaginary porn lesbian, when, in real life, he'll always assume I must be straight because we all know "real" lesbians look like Ellen, Sara Gilbert, or Rosie O'Donnell... and most of them assume that, because I'm femme, all they need is the power of their penis to break my attraction to women. I can't tell you how many guys won't accept "I'm a lesbian" as a "I'm not interested" answer when they hit on me.

But yeah, it's all about big boobs (to play with, stick his penis between, etc), big butts (attracted to curves, anal fetish, etc), duck lips (for sucking), and then trendy fetish stuff (either shaved or natural pubic hair, piercings, tats) or classic feminine imagery (pinups, heels, secretary outfits, long hair, etc). Guys get attracted to this and then women go do it to be attractive to guys.

Porn actresses make more money the more they objectify themselves and the more explicit they're willing to work (gangbangs pay more than hardcore pays more than softcore pays more than non-nude for a shoot)... So, just like the girls at the strip club (who may also be porn stars), a $5k investment in bigger boobs may net 10-100x that in earnings over the next few months to several years (most only shoot for a few months of their life, even if the distributors take years to dole it all out).

Other than my vaginoplasty, which I needed fixed for medical reasons just like repairing a cleft pallet, I'm surgically all natural (though I have plenty of piercings and a couple discrete tats which I did for myself because it all made me feel particularly more feminine in accordance with who I actually am) and I look about 10 years younger than I actually am... From time to time, I think about some minor tweaks that I'll probably never follow through with, but all women, trans or cis, have our insecurities, even if we don't tell others about them. But, for me, anything I've had done was for the benefit of my own self image, not because I thought someone else might find me more attractive for doing it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ulenrich
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 1415

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@noyb Your post again has insights new for me.

The t-woman is in the spotlights of Tv-series as a caricature, while the t-man may
Quote:
simply disappears into the crowd of "just another guy."
Yes, never thought of it.
I want to add the mass murder of black trans women is in quantities of a genocide for years. Sad.
A sad truth about:
Quote:
sympathy and understanding and the two extremes wouldn't be able to use us for their political benefit
I like your stand in between against being used politically. Heroine!
The Democratic Party has a long history gathering minorities since the 1960s.
Perhaps they feel a kind of panic if political mechanics don't work as they used to work. What should they do for your support?
Quote:
men often feel forced to hide some of their more feminine traits
Yes, we've dreamt to fight that while hanging out with the music of The Police and U2. We wanted to put an end to sexual orientation emphasis. We called ourselves bisexuals despite we never were but straight.
Quote:
I think about some minor tweaks that I'll probably never follow
I have an argument as a man who loves all women:
For example Halle Berry is one of the most beautiful women, but looking in her face for longer you won't find any extraordinary beauty in the features. All is pretty normal. On the other side there are faces showing unseemliness in the details, but the beauty is even more stunning. Beauty is a mystery and Leonardo could paint that. But to build it from scratch you need far more craftsmanship than da Vinci. If you believe you can change your face for the better you'll most likely take away the uniqueness which is the beauty of you.
_________________
ultra left enrich
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
noyb
n00b
n00b


Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 0

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:

I want to add the mass murder of black trans women is in quantities of a genocide for years. Sad.


Trans women tend to be assaulted and killed by people they don't know or are mildly acquainted with... the majority of times, it involves a guy or guys lashing out because of their own internalized homophobia. Maybe a guy meets a girl he's attracted and finds out that she has/had a penis, so he gets enraged and kills her for making him questioning his own manhood. Often, trans women resort to sex work, putting themselves into situations where this danger becomes more likely, but it can happen just because she was sitting at a bar with her friends, had a guy hit on her, and then the guy's friends made fun of him.

Trans men tend to be killed by people they know, usually close family members. Typically it's a dad or brother that doesn't want "my little girl/sister taken away from me" or may be a result of "you think you're a man? Let me beat the shit out of you and we'll see how much of a man you are!"

ulenrich wrote:

A sad truth about:
Quote:
sympathy and understanding and the two extremes wouldn't be able to use us for their political benefit
I like your stand in between against being used politically. Heroine!
The Democratic Party has a long history gathering minorities since the 1960s.
Perhaps they feel a kind of panic if political mechanics don't work as they used to work. What should they do for your support?


Let's be clear here... the Democrat party doesn't care about minorities... they care about using minorities for their own political gain. Cities are full of violence, failing schools, and crushing poverty, and, with decades of Democrat mayors, they've continued to decline. Democrats supported the #metoo campaign but are willing to turn a blind eye to people like Joe Biden, Bill Clinton, and others that rape and molest women because winning is more important than upholding your values.

Booker T Washington wrote on page 118 in My Larger Education, "There is another class of coloured people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs - partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs."

To correlate that to the Democrat party, they're vested in making sure that things DON'T actually get better, but ensuring that everyone stays aggrieved and divided... because that is how they maintain their power and grow their wealth. They might throw the minorities a minor victory here and then to keep them on the plantation, but they are every bit the slave owner that that word implies. I'll happily slam the Republican party with you all day, every day, but the Democrats are just as bad, and I would argue, even worse than the Republicans.

ulenrich wrote:

Quote:
men often feel forced to hide some of their more feminine traits
Yes, we've dreamt to fight that while hanging out with the music of The Police and U2. We wanted to put an end to sexual orientation emphasis. We called ourselves bisexuals despite we never were but straight.


And while I'm sure you meant no harm and you felt enlightened in doing so, you took away another minority group's identity and made it more likely for people to be dismissive of them.

Nobody takes bisexual people seriously. Gays and Lesbians assume bisexual people are straight, but want to seem enlightened directly because of people that do what you did. My girlfriend is bi, and we're currently going through a relationship crisis because her mother refuses to accept that she loves a woman and her mother only wants her to date men because she likes them anyway. As a lesbian, I've constantly run into other women that claim to be bi on dating websites, but aren't out as bi or flat out refuse to date women, so they're abusing the label and making it harder for women that are attracted to women to find each other... and then there are the "bisexual" women that will message you and talk for a few weeks before telling you that their boyfriend or husband wants a threesome - her whole goal, again, was to try to get a lesbian, a woman that only likes other women, to sleep with a man. Between situations like what I'm going through with my gf (where we both love each other but she may cave to her mother's demands to date a guy) and all the women abusing the term on dating sites, most lesbians are actively AGAINST dating any woman that claims to be bisexual now... so, much like how I suffer from "femme invisibility" because I'm "too feminine to be a lesbian," bisexuals suffer from their own invisibility because the term has been so abused that nobody takes them seriously.

Seriously, don't steal a minority group's identity for your own gain... make up a new term, like metrosexual, to describe your group or you're actively causing harm to people fighting to be recognized as valid.

"Transsexual" was taken away from my group by people that aren't transsexuals because they were a bigger group that envied us because there was some level of acceptance for us; While they may not be able to fully understand it, people can sympathize with the idea that someone is a woman trapped in a man's body, while at the same time looking at cross dressers as just perverts. So, drag queens, cross dressers, non-binaries, etc all took our label away for being "too exclusionary" and lumped us in with them so that they could gain some credibility... and we, as transsexuals, suffer for it. Like I said, we lose access to medical care, credibility with people that can understand changing genders but not someone that is a "bi-gender, genderfluid, two spirit, demisexual, polyromantic, andro pansexual switch," and have a harder time validating our very existence. Socially, in some places, we've lost access to bathrooms because "I don't want those freaks in there with my daughter," when, someone like me has been using the women's bathroom for years without anyone ever even knowing that I'm trans.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tinea_pedis
n00b
n00b


Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

noyb wrote:
Conservative people are horrified because trans people change the social dynamic..

Bullshit. But I have to blame English language, which doesn't differentiate between 'conservative', i.e.'old fashioned' - and I mean especially religiously, for example Orthodox Jews, pretty much all Muhammadans or the Pope worshipping Catholics - and conservatives, those who wan't to conserve current situation. And no, pious, zealous are not the same thing.

You write 'phobia' this and that, but what are YOU afraid of, especially unrationally afraid of?

And conservative - and indeed sane - people SHOULD be afraid, because all signs point to the fact that these gender identity things lead to a complete mess of a society, where nobody can identify with eachother. And such society will no longer be one.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
noyb
n00b
n00b


Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 0

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tinea_pedis wrote:
noyb wrote:
Conservative people are horrified because trans people change the social dynamic..

Bullshit. But I have to blame English language, which doesn't differentiate between 'conservative', i.e.'old fashioned' - and I mean especially religiously, for example Orthodox Jews, pretty much all Muhammadans or the Pope worshipping Catholics - and conservatives, those who wan't to conserve current situation. And no, pious, zealous are not the same thing.

You write 'phobia' this and that, but what are YOU afraid of, especially unrationally afraid of?

And conservative - and indeed sane - people SHOULD be afraid, because all signs point to the fact that these gender identity things lead to a complete mess of a society, where nobody can identify with eachother. And such society will no longer be one.


Thanks for proving my point...

Conservatives, ie, people that don't want traditions or the status quo to change, don't want the social dynamic to change.

Binary transsexuals really don't change that social dynamic much at all... we're something like 0.3-0.5% of the population and the vast majority of us just want to be who we are, and fit into the social norms of the gender we identify as. We just blend in and disappear and the only people that really opposed us were religious conservatives that think we're an affront to their god.

It's everyone else under the transgender umbrella that causes the disruption to society and, having our label stolen from us for being exclusionary, we're lumped in with them... raising the ire of all social conservatives, not to mention TERFs and such, against us as well.

What am I afraid of? Someone targeting me for being trans or lesbian. In some cultures 2020, we're openly hunted and killed by the state, but even in the western world a lot of TERFs go around doxxing us specifically to put us in the crosshairs of people that wish violence upon us. There's a reason why I asked for the court to seal my name change order... and prior to my transition, a former employer told me that "those (trans) people are sick fucks that deserve to be shot."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tinea_pedis
n00b
n00b


Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

noyb wrote:
Thanks for proving my point...

Conservatives, ie, people that don't want traditions or the status quo to change, don't want the social dynamic to change.

Binary transsexuals really don't change that social dynamic much at all... we're something like 0.3-0.5% of the population and the vast majority of us just want to be who we are, and fit into the social norms of the gender we identify as. We just blend in and disappear and the only people that really opposed us were religious conservatives that think we're an affront to their god.

It's everyone else under the transgender umbrella that causes the disruption to society and, having our label stolen from us for being exclusionary, we're lumped in with them... raising the ire of all social conservatives, not to mention TERFs and such, against us as well.

What am I afraid of? Someone targeting me for being trans or lesbian. In some cultures 2020, we're openly hunted and killed by the state, but even in the western world a lot of TERFs go around doxxing us specifically to put us in the crosshairs of people that wish violence upon us. There's a reason why I asked for the court to seal my name change order... and prior to my transition, a former employer told me that "those (trans) people are sick fucks that deserve to be shot."

My problem is that you write 'horrified'. I'm not horrified, but pissed off.

If you act like a decent human being, then I don't give a penny about your sexuality, gender or sexual/gender identity (well of course I do, if i'm attracted to you). But if one goes apeshit when I say 'you're welcome sir' to apparent male or You say that 'I can act like an ass, because i'm this or that and tomorrow something else', then sweat starts to form on my forehead.

You are absolutely correct that in some cultures homosexuals and transsexuals are openly hunted. In Muhammadan countries and societies, but also in totalitarian states, for example Communist occupied mainland China, Vietnam and northern Korea. The paradox here is that people fully supporting or fellow travelling with identity politics are actually supporting these backward cultures and cults. They don't give a shit about human casualties, because we have already seen that European ('white') homosexual male is the first minority to be fed to the wolves. Who comes next?

By the way, I'm reactionary. The identity politics and multicultural experiment (in European nation states at least) are the current norm, and this status quo I don't want to conserve at all. But neither I want to go some untested, unstable new society, to be a radical.

Your former employer was an asshole, if he or she actually said that.

This 'TERF' is again acronym that it's hard to understand who it actually means. I don't really even care, because tomorrow it means something else and then comes a new term or acronym. These terms are just like long-as-hell Soviet acronyms: they actually needed to make new acronyms, because the original acronyms were too long for anyone to remember.


Last edited by tinea_pedis on Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Naib
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 5847
Location: Removed by Neddy

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tinea_pedis wrote:


This 'TERF' is again acronym that it's hard to understand who it actually means. I don't really even care, because tomorrow it means something else and then comes a new term or acronym. These terms are just like long-as-hell Soviet acronyms: they actually needed to make new acronyms, because the original acronyms were too long for anyone to remember.
And the irony of his/her/their/shim/ stance is ... TERF is actually used as an offensive term toward woman. so they sit there soapboxing to the rest of us about how there is mistreatment but they themselves are perpetuating a toxic environment.

Up until that point... just someone expressing their opinion but then, throwing that term around as casually as they did. They are the problem and not worth wasting any time with this hypocrite
_________________
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mrbassie
l33t
l33t


Joined: 31 May 2013
Posts: 607

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

noyb wrote:
ulenrich wrote:

I want to add the mass murder of black trans women is in quantities of a genocide for years. Sad.


Trans women tend to be assaulted and killed by people they don't know or are mildly acquainted with.


When, where?

I've never heard of any of these murders. You'd think with how woke the media is these days I might have done.
Maybe that's just me though.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Naib
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 5847
Location: Removed by Neddy

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrbassie wrote:
noyb wrote:
ulenrich wrote:

I want to add the mass murder of black trans women is in quantities of a genocide for years. Sad.


Trans women tend to be assaulted and killed by people they don't know or are mildly acquainted with.


When, where?

I've never heard of any of these murders. You'd think with how woke the media is these days I might have done.
Maybe that's just me though.
and guess what cis people are assulted and killed by people they don't know.

News flash humans are shits
_________________
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
noyb
n00b
n00b


Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 0

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tinea_pedis wrote:


If you act like a decent human being, then I don't give a penny about your sexuality, gender or sexual/gender identity (well of course I do, if i'm attracted to you). But if one goes apeshit when I say 'you're welcome sir' to apparent male or You say that 'I can act like an ass, because i'm this or that and tomorrow something else', then sweat starts to form on my forehead.


So, you're comfortable as long as everyone conforms to your world view and doesn't challenge your assumptions... and, while I almost certainly do conform to your view of the world better than most cis women do, I have friends that will never pass... and it is completely and utterly demoralizing for them. Most people can tell that they're trying though, and, after being told that to use the approriate gender pronouns, most of those people will try to accommodate them. Sometimes, if someone refuses to use the right gender, instead of becoming more depressed, they'll lash out if they've had a rough day. Most of them just take the abuse though and go home and literally cry themselves to sleep.

The people you see in the "it's maaaaam!" type videos are activists though... and most of them aren't transsexuals... but they are the people that wanted to take that label away from people like me and throw all of us under one shared label, so they can steal our credibility, and they actively harm people like me in doing so.

tinea_pedis wrote:

By the way, I'm reactionary. The identity politics and multicultural experiment (in European nation states at least) are the current norm, and this status quo I don't want to conserve at all. But neither I want to go some untested, unstable new society, to be a radical.


I'm not a supporter of multiculturalism and identity politics either... I don't even use trans as the first word to describe myself. I'm just a woman... if we need more details than that for legal or medical reasons, then, sure, I'm also trans...

tinea_pedis wrote:

Your former employer was an asshole, if he or she actually said that.


He did... and I have people that don't know that I'm trans that say similar things to me still today.

tinea_pedis wrote:

This 'TERF' is again acronym that it's hard to understand who it actually means. I don't really even care, because tomorrow it means something else and then comes a new term or acronym. These terms are just like long-as-hell Soviet acronyms: they actually needed to make new acronyms, because the original acronyms were too long for anyone to remember.


TERF = Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists (a term they proudly created to define themselves, only for them to now be upset that it has essentially become a slur)... they're "gender critical" "feminists" that believe that you are the genitals you were born with and those genitals alone define everything about your life. Trans men are just poor deluded women that need to be rescued from their internalized misogyny and trans women are all predators looking to get into women only spaces so that we can rape them (you know, with the penis I had removed). They believe that by outing us and calling for violence against us, we will repent our essential sin of being trans and go back to the genitals we were assigned at birth.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
noyb
n00b
n00b


Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 0

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
tinea_pedis wrote:


This 'TERF' is again acronym that it's hard to understand who it actually means. I don't really even care, because tomorrow it means something else and then comes a new term or acronym. These terms are just like long-as-hell Soviet acronyms: they actually needed to make new acronyms, because the original acronyms were too long for anyone to remember.
And the irony of his/her/their/shim/ stance is ... TERF is actually used as an offensive term toward woman. so they sit there soapboxing to the rest of us about how there is mistreatment but they themselves are perpetuating a toxic environment.

Up until that point... just someone expressing their opinion but then, throwing that term around as casually as they did. They are the problem and not worth wasting any time with this hypocrite


It's a term the TERFs coined for themselves to denote their stance from other feminists, in that they expressly oppose the inclusion of trans people with the gender they identify as... the fact that it has become a negative word lies in the very nature of the beliefs of the TERFs being largely rejected by the public. I didn't create a toxic environment, the TERFs themselves did, and I'm just pointing out that their views are toxic.

It would be like Klan members suddenly being upset that people use the term in a derogatory manner because those other people think racism is bad.

BTW - thanks for trying to demean me by intentionally using the wrong pronouns and then equating me with the non-binary people that have sought to ruin the credibility of transsexuals. Bravo for pointing out the very thing I complained about.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Naib
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 5847
Location: Removed by Neddy

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are the one choosing to take offense and in doing so proving the points made... Not once did you state your "preferred" pronoun so by painting a broad stroke you take offense. Bravo for showing your intolance
_________________
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
noyb
n00b
n00b


Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 0

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrbassie wrote:
noyb wrote:
ulenrich wrote:

I want to add the mass murder of black trans women is in quantities of a genocide for years. Sad.


Trans women tend to be assaulted and killed by people they don't know or are mildly acquainted with.


When, where?

I've never heard of any of these murders. You'd think with how woke the media is these days I might have done.
Maybe that's just me though.


Here's a murder in Dallas this month.

You're less likely to hear about it because 1) trans person and 2) the vast majority of cases are minorities, so it isn't the leading news story of the day... kinda like how a blonde, blue eyed, female child getting kidnapped gets more news attention than someone not fitting that description.

There's something called TDOR (Trans Day of Remembrance) every year, where the trans community remembers the people that were killed in the previous year... The woman in the story I posted is the 18th one in the US this year, so, by raw numbers it's a drop in the bucket of the general population's murders, but some countries, like Brazil, have enough trans murders to make sure that I'll never set foot there. But you can look up the murders and there are lots of links to stories about what happened to them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
noyb
n00b
n00b


Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 0

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
You are the one choosing to take offense and in doing so proving the points made... Not once did you state your "preferred" pronoun so by painting a broad stroke you take offense. Bravo for showing your intolance


Hmm... let's see... I've said that I'm a woman how many times in this thread?

So, the only reason for you to try to throw others pronoun at me, is because you know that I'm trans... hence, your goal is to intentionally demean me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Naib
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 5847
Location: Removed by Neddy

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again, you are choosing to take offense
_________________
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
richk449
Guru
Guru


Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 345

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
Again, you are choosing to take offense

I can't wrap my head around what you mean by this response.

Say that instead this happens:
Naib slaps Bob.
Bob says "please don't slap me"
Naib says "you are choosing to take offense at being slapped"

In that case, Naib's reply would be considered nonsensical.

So I assume what you mean is something along the lines of "All I did was use some words in a way that you don't like, and you are choosing to take offense, instead of just ignoring me". If that is the case, you should just be honest, and say "I prioritize other things above your feelings, so I will not speak to you in the way you would like". Instead of somehow implying that the person you are insulting is at fault for you insulting them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mrbassie
l33t
l33t


Joined: 31 May 2013
Posts: 607

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

noyb wrote:


Here's a murder in Dallas this month.


That article is clearly about black on black violence though, so you posting the link is cultural appropriation.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
noyb
n00b
n00b


Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 0

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrbassie wrote:
noyb wrote:


Here's a murder in Dallas this month.


That article is clearly about black on black violence though, so you posting the link is cultural appropriation.


Most of the reported violence* against trans people is against trans women of color...

There can be a lot of pressure for men to prove just how macho they are in certain minority communities, so it gets back to the idea of homophobia... and again, why the T is relevant to the LGB.


* White trans women are likely to be harassed and mocked if they don't pass, but they aren't as likely to be assaulted. And, again, trans guys just disappear into the background because of how potent testosterone is... plus women are less likely to scream "eek! a vagina!" than guys screaming "eek! a penis!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
noyb
n00b
n00b


Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 0

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

richk449 wrote:
Naib wrote:
Again, you are choosing to take offense

I can't wrap my head around what you mean by this response.

Say that instead this happens:
Naib slaps Bob.
Bob says "please don't slap me"
Naib says "you are choosing to take offense at being slapped"

In that case, Naib's reply would be considered nonsensical.

So I assume what you mean is something along the lines of "All I did was use some words in a way that you don't like, and you are choosing to take offense, instead of just ignoring me". If that is the case, you should just be honest, and say "I prioritize other things above your feelings, so I will not speak to you in the way you would like". Instead of somehow implying that the person you are insulting is at fault for you insulting them.


Naib's just not used to getting called out for behaving badly... as much as I don't do the minority studies thing, he's simply gaslighting and showing his privilege.

This whole thread he started was supposed to be about making fun of those crazy transgenders and I went and humanized it, so he needs to dehumanize me in response.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mrbassie
l33t
l33t


Joined: 31 May 2013
Posts: 607

PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't conceive who should feel the most shame in this here thread.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ulenrich
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 1415

PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrbassie wrote:
noyb wrote:
ulenrich wrote:

I want to add the mass murder of black trans women is in quantities of a genocide for years. Sad.


Trans women tend to be assaulted and killed by people they don't know or are mildly acquainted with.


When, where?

I've never heard of any of these murders. You'd think with how woke the media is these days I might have done.
Maybe that's just me though.
linky
fox23.com wrote:
Brayla Stone. Merci Mack. Shaki Peters. Draya McCarty. Bree Black.

A total of five Black transgender women have been found dead in four states in the past month, bringing the death toll to at least seven since the beginning of June, which is celebrated as LGBTQ Pride Month in the U.S.

The Human Rights Campaign reports that there have been at least 21 transgender or nonbinary people killed in the U.S. in 2020, including Summer Taylor, a Black Lives Matter protester who was struck and killed by a driver July 4 during a demonstration in Seattle.
Content Continues Below

Taylor, who was nonbinary, was white. The majority of LGBTQ people killed are Black women
candle for mourning the long long list
The daily progressive news media of Noam Chomsky named democracynow.org brings a sentence of a murder if it happens.
_________________
ultra left enrich


Last edited by ulenrich on Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:25 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pjp
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 18558

PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

noyb wrote:
This whole thread he started was supposed to be about making fun of those crazy transgenders and I went and humanized it, so he needs to dehumanize me in response.
I thought it was about the crazy people who came up with the terms. I didn't click the link, but I presumed it was from a certain type of activist. I didn't presume anything else about them.

While I think you do a good job of presenting your experiences, there is a definite change when you comment on conservatives and men as homogeneous groups. I was disappointed if not surprised to read the comments of gaslighting and privilege.

noyb wrote:
What am I afraid of? Someone targeting me for being trans or lesbian. In some cultures 2020, we're openly hunted and killed by the state, but even in the western world a lot of TERFs go around doxxing us specifically to put us in the crosshairs of people that wish violence upon us.
Change a few words and that is happening to groups I believe to be significantly larger in number than 0.3-0.5% of the population. The hunters seem to have no concern about whether or not their victims are people they claim to be fighting for, never mind whether or not they're the people they claim to hate. Although I believe that is intentional.
_________________
Your lips move, but I can't hear what you're saying.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pjp
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 18558

PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

richk449 wrote:
In that case, Naib's reply would be considered nonsensical.
Then don't make nonsensical comparisons.

richk449 wrote:
So I assume what you mean is something along the lines of "All I did was use some words in a way that you don't like, and you are choosing to take offense, instead of just ignoring me". If that is the case, you should just be honest, and say "I prioritize other things above your feelings, so I will not speak to you in the way you would like". Instead of somehow implying that the person you are insulting is at fault for you insulting them.
How does a person first obtain approval for what would be communicated? Is there a broker that approves what would then be sent to the intended person? On the occasions when I've encountered people who communicated in a way I disliked, I stopped paying attention to them, walked away, or sat through their meetings until I could leave. I remember a time when a teacher explained to class that there was only one of them and many students, so it was beneficial for students to learn how they as individuals learned. The significance being that the teacher cannot teach the same lesson in a unique way for each student (separate from one-on-one assistance). I thought it was a valuable observation.
_________________
Your lips move, but I can't hear what you're saying.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
noyb
n00b
n00b


Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 0

PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
noyb wrote:
This whole thread he started was supposed to be about making fun of those crazy transgenders and I went and humanized it, so he needs to dehumanize me in response.
I thought it was about the crazy people who came up with the terms. I didn't click the link, but I presumed it was from a certain type of activist. I didn't presume anything else about them.

While I think you do a good job of presenting your experiences, there is a definite change when you comment on conservatives and men as homogeneous groups. I was disappointed if not surprised to read the comments of gaslighting and privilege.


That's what a lifetime of being invalidated by certain people will do you to... in real life, you're not likely to ever know I'm trans, so I don't have to deal with it... but when I do out myself or when I'm outed by circumstance, the discrimination is something I've had to learn to deal with, and I refuse to accept it.

I was a conservative long before I considered myself a libertarian... it was only through years of constantly hearing what a monster people like me are, before I finally decided that it wasn't where I belong. And, unlike a lot of people today, I'm willing to call out my own side for its shortcomings, and not just blame the other side for everything because team loyalty trumps all.

And, yeah, Naib decided to mock me for being trans by pretending to not know my pronouns... that's gaslighting and I'm going to call him out on it.

RULE 5: "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon." There is no defense. It's irrational. It's infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions. (Pretty crude, rude and mean, huh? They want to create anger and fear.)

RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it." Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)


pjp wrote:

noyb wrote:
What am I afraid of? Someone targeting me for being trans or lesbian. In some cultures 2020, we're openly hunted and killed by the state, but even in the western world a lot of TERFs go around doxxing us specifically to put us in the crosshairs of people that wish violence upon us.
Change a few words and that is happening to groups I believe to be significantly larger in number than 0.3-0.5% of the population. The hunters seem to have no concern about whether or not their victims are people they claim to be fighting for, never mind whether or not they're the people they claim to hate. Although I believe that is intentional.


Yeah, it happens to a lot of groups... but this one is personal to me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
richk449
Guru
Guru


Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 345

PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
richk449 wrote:
In that case, Naib's reply would be considered nonsensical.
Then don't make nonsensical comparisons.

Your reply completely misses my point. Should I take the time to explain why?

Quote:
richk449 wrote:
So I assume what you mean is something along the lines of "All I did was use some words in a way that you don't like, and you are choosing to take offense, instead of just ignoring me". If that is the case, you should just be honest, and say "I prioritize other things above your feelings, so I will not speak to you in the way you would like". Instead of somehow implying that the person you are insulting is at fault for you insulting them.
How does a person first obtain approval for what would be communicated? Is there a broker that approves what would then be sent to the intended person?

What is the relevant of your question? Naib went out of his way to insult noyb. It wasn't an accidental mistake. If it had been an accident, Naib would have quickly apologized for making the mistake, and everyone would have moved on.

Is there really a big problem with trying to figure out if it is okay to insult someone? When you show up to work, do you struggle with whether or not you should say "hey dickhead" to random people that walk by you in the hallway? I doubt it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Off the Wall All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 2 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum