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Naib
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:21 pm    Post subject: God bless 1984 and newspeak Reply with quote

so the authoring of the 1st edition of the newspeak dictionary is underway to help purge our thoughts of unwanted thinking. May I present to you the new terminology for your body

https://assets2.hrc.org/files/assets/resources/Trans_Safer_Sex_Guide_FINAL.pdf?_ga=2.111013573.1722961552.1594055470-1445105611.1591496491

DICK: We use this word to describe external genitals. Dicks come in all shapes and sizes and can belong to people of all genders.
FRONT HOLE: We use this word to talk about internal genitals, sometimes referred to as a vagina. A front hole may self-lubricate, depending on age and hormones.
STRAPLESS: We use this word to describe the genitals of trans women who have not had genital reconstruction (or “bottom surgery”), sometimes referred to as a penis.
VAGINA: We use this word to talk about the genitals of trans women who have had bottom surgery.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As our resident post-op trans gentooer...

Even I'm cringing at this one.

A penis or neo-phallus is a penis. A vagina or neo-vagina is a vagina. Some people MAY use some slightly different terminology for their parts (and "junk," literally as in something they don't want, is the most common term), but for the most part, terms like "man clit" reside in the world of fetish and/or porn terminology.

In my every day life, knowing hundreds of other trans people, many of whom I've worked with one on one, I've never heard of a trans man or post-op woman, calling their vagina a "front hole" and I've never heard a trans woman refer to her penis as a "strapless." However, I have known a pre-op trans guy to wear a silicone "packing" penis that inserts into their vagina to allow them to have the sensation of having a penis and being able to stand to pee, effectively making it strapless (though useless for sex).

I'm not ok with where gender studies and the crazy progressive left wants to take everything - equivocating trans people and cross dressers under the same heading (gender dysphoria is a defining difference between a transsexual and someone just dressing up for sexual gratification), calling pedophiles "MAPs" and wanting to include them with LGBs as an orientation, calling trans people that believe in the benefits theraputic diagnoses/treatment "truscum" or "transmedicalists" and wanting to expel them from the community, etc.

Speaking more largely of the political movement behind this, go to Youtube and watch Yuri Bezmenov's interview from 1984. He was a former KGB agent that talked about how the Soviets didn't care so much about spying, but bringing countries down from the inside over a period of decades. There's a four part plan involved with toppling everything and he even uses the term "social justice" when describing it.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, to be frank the logical end of the gender as a social construct line of thinking is to completely destroy the entire concept of a transgender person at all. How can you transition from male to female (or vice versa) if male and female don't exist?

It has been obvious for quite some time these people have no interest in any of the alphabet. They just want to use them to gain power.

One video I just can't get out of my head was this completely ordinary bearded dude talking on a panel. He explained he was a transgender lesbian and the hot girl next to him was his girlfriend. Quite obviously he had nothing to do with actually being trans. He was pandering to crazy to bang it. I'm sure it didn't end well for him and I'm also sure female pronouns do not apply.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

noyb wrote:
calling pedophiles "MAPs" and wanting to include them with LGBs as an orientation, calling trans people that believe in the benefits theraputic diagnoses/treatment "truscum" or "transmedicalists" and wanting to expel them from the community, etc.
Thanks for your comments. Associating with and trying to normalize pedophilia is truly disturbing. I would expect reasonable people to not associate with them.

Related to the general concept you reference in the Yuri video (haven't watched it, but have heard something similar), expelling "undesirables" from the community seems to fit well. Although I typically have heard it being done after they've achieved meaningful control over a society. I find it truly baffling that the vast majority of people don't seem to be rejecting such behaviors. If there isn't a correction, well, yeah.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Thanks for your comments. Associating with and trying to normalize pedophilia is truly disturbing. I would expect reasonable people to not associate with them.

Let these mentals go for it. This just goes to show that when your means to gain power or ideology in itself is crazy enough, it always provides itself the nucleus to self-destruction. Just like Communism destroys itself or mutates to something else, even if it's still called 'communism'.

Normal people will never take these definitions seriously. Most of the time active resistance to them is not even necessary. Just ignore them.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tinea_pedis wrote:
Normal people will never take these definitions seriously. Most of the time active resistance to them is not even necessary. Just ignore them.
It is not the normal people you need to worry about. It is the people with power writing the laws.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tinea_pedis wrote:
Just like Communism destroys itself or mutates to something else, even if it's still called 'communism'.
Before it can destroy itself, it must first be brought into being. There seems to be no small number of people who believe we just haven't seen it done properly. Maybe they're tired of the gig economy and what to put their process improvement degrees to use.

tinea_pedis wrote:
Normal people will never take these definitions seriously.
I doubt they'll be used in mainstream scenarios. Most are currently inappropriate in the workplace (US). However, there seems to be an odd, anti-vaccination-like movement to alter science. Some accounts suggest psychology has already been significantly affected. I'm not sure if "normal people" factor in that outcome unless, as The Doctor mentioned, they take the definitions seriously enough when considering who will be writing the next laws.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
tinea_pedis wrote:
Just like Communism destroys itself or mutates to something else, even if it's still called 'communism'.
Before it can destroy itself, it must first be brought into being. There seems to be no small number of people who believe we just haven't seen it done properly. Maybe they're tired of the gig economy and what to put their process improvement degrees to use.

tinea_pedis wrote:
Normal people will never take these definitions seriously.
I doubt they'll be used in mainstream scenarios. Most are currently inappropriate in the workplace (US). However, there seems to be an odd, anti-vaccination-like movement to alter science. Some accounts suggest psychology has already been significantly affected. I'm not sure if "normal people" factor in that outcome unless, as The Doctor mentioned, they take the definitions seriously enough when considering who will be writing the next laws.

I would say corporations would be the avenue in. Since they are shit scared of being sued (discrimination, exclusion etc...) they would start to mandate ethics to align to this out of fear of litigation.

once done it would be pushed at state-level as mandatory for all employees to sneak into law
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For some stuff, certainly. That's been happening for a long time. Employers are already on board with limiting language to protect themselves against lawsuits and provide "training" so they can check the box that says they told you not to use "bad words." Any reasonably functioning person in that environment is not going to use those words. However, I can see certain types teaching young children to use those words.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Some accounts suggest psychology has already been significantly affected.
It is way worse than that. Hard sciences like astronomy and physics now have entire conferences to complain that not enough things (like "Newton's Laws") where named after woman and people of color. They have also moved to outright ban any scientific inquiry or discovery they disapprove of. For example, there was a case study showing a commonly used anti-psychotic drug treated gender dysphoria. The author was viciously attacked for it and the study has been completely suppressed. Another case, the inventor of gender reassignment surgery has since reversed his position and says he no longer believes it is medically justified. He is widely attacked for it. Then you look at how widely everyone has been preaching about COVID-19's connection to racism. And climate change. Scientists are not free to follow the evidence in these cases. They are only allowed to preach the orthodoxy.

Science has been destroyed by this for quite some time. It is probably going to take generations to clean it up into an intellectually honest venture again.

The proof I have for that was in a sociology class. The instructor was teaching us that gender is a social construct. At the time I was completely ignorant of this entire political push so I asked about the John/Joan case and how that factored into the discussion. It was a completely innocent question trying to make sense of her seemingly contradictory position. She knew exactly what I was talking about (an involuntary gender reassignment at birth that was completely rejected by puberty) and she knew it completely contradicted her ideology. She spent about 10 minutes ranting to the effect that she couldn't get into it now, she stood by her ideology, and she had no answer. That kind of intellectual dishonesty doesn't just go away. It also shows the mind of a person who has no objection to significantly harming or killing other people in defense of their ideology.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

take your pick


    * 1984
    * Fahrenheit 451
    * A brave new World

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@The Doctor

Sad.

NASA has a 2030s plan for humans to Mars; Elon thinks 2024. The farther into the 2030s it takes seems more likely to produce benefits of questionable merit.

Maybe instead of having a "lost generation" we'll be able to refer to them as the "relocated generation."
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Doctor wrote:
For example, there was a case study showing a commonly used anti-psychotic drug treated gender dysphoria. The author was viciously attacked for it and the study has been completely suppressed.


Since we're complaining about scientific laziness, let's be clear on this issue... it was a case, not a case study. It was an n=1... something to indicate that more research should be done, but not definitive proof. And, in that regard, there is very, very little research done into trans issues at all. Maybe the single easiest issue to tackle - "what hormones should we be prescribing and what are the ideal target ranges?" hasn't been studied. The Endocrine Society guidelines, San Francisco guidelines, etc are just a collection of best guesses from corresponding doctors.

There are a LOT of mental health issues within the trans community - it is by far the trans community's biggest need... but whether schizophrenia, borderline personality disorder, and other conditions are the cause rather than the effect of having a society crush you for being different, is up for debate. I know paranoid schizophrenics, borderlines, and body dysmorphic disorder people that claim to be trans, but are clearly being pushed into thinking they're trans because of their pre-existing disorder... but I know a lot of people that deal with anxiety and depression because they feel like they're constantly being attacked (and it's not just imaginary microaggressions).

The Doctor wrote:
Another case, the inventor of gender reassignment surgery has since reversed his position and says he no longer believes it is medically justified. He is widely attacked for it.


You're going to have to be more clear on this one... because the inventor isn't alive today and it's not probably who you think it is... and if you're thinking it was Paul McHugh, you're drastically off by decades and this is a guy that thinks being gay is a mental disorder too. Basically, if you don't fit into his Christian conservative world view, you're a deviant.

But since you bring up Joan/Joan (David Reimer) below, you might be talking about John Money... and, yeah, go figure, you can't forcibly reassign a child without their consent and force them to be something they aren't. If anything, it lends credence to internalized gender being a fixed construct even if it doesn't match the external sex. He came to disavow the case, but that was mostly because he was the one that screwed it up by NOT respecting his PATIENT's stated identification... and, like McHugh, he believed that women only belonged in a bed or the kitchen anyway... but even further, he was totally chill with pedophilia.

These guys aren't exactly the pillar of scientific thought that you want to paint them as... but they fit your agenda, so you deem them credible.

Now, getting into some harder science, studies of the brains, which are sexually dimorphic, of trans people, including fMRI, MRI, and postmortem examination, indicate that the brains of trans people correspond with the brain structures of the gender they identify as instead of the gender they were assigned at birth. In addition to chromosomal conditions which cause people to develop intersex conditions, people that can have proper XX or XY chromosomes can diverge during gestation, causing internal organs to differentiate from external ones... and much like ovaries, brains are another gendered internal organ.

The Doctor wrote:

The proof I have for that was in a sociology class. The instructor was teaching us that gender is a social construct. At the time I was completely ignorant of this entire political push so I asked about the John/Joan case and how that factored into the discussion. It was a completely innocent question trying to make sense of her seemingly contradictory position. She knew exactly what I was talking about (an involuntary gender reassignment at birth that was completely rejected by puberty) and she knew it completely contradicted her ideology. She spent about 10 minutes ranting to the effect that she couldn't get into it now, she stood by her ideology, and she had no answer. That kind of intellectual dishonesty doesn't just go away. It also shows the mind of a person who has no objection to significantly harming or killing other people in defense of their ideology.


So, the difference between an involuntary reassignment at birth is different from an elective reassignment after a persistent and consistent declaration of gender identity divergent from the one assigned at birth matters how? Oh, yeah, see, one was the result of someone making a choice and forcing it onto another person, while the other one was the result of the person exerting their own will.

I'll be the first to point out that it's super, ridiculously easy and trendy to claim you're trans, especially non-binary... and maybe, or maybe not, start HRT with or without ever even seeing a mental health professional... but informed consent only became an option because of the number of providers that would rather impose their ideology onto people than help them. Back in the 80s, you had to live full time for at least a year and exhibit all of the cartoonish idealized characteristics of the gender you claimed to be (trans women needed to be dainty little housewives that loved some man meat, trans guys needed to be ultra macho members of the A-Team, and you had to be attracted to the opposite sex of the gender you identified as, so, as a lesbian, I wouldn't have been allowed to go forward just because I don't find men attractive), before you were even allowed to start hormones.

The result of this policy, was trans people that couldn't get medical care went to the DIY school of pharmacy and found back channel ways of acquiring hormones - today, there are overseas pharmacies that will supply you, but back then, you might hit up a steroid dealer or have a female friend get birth control pills for you... and without medical supervision, people were causing a lot of harm to themselves, resulting in strokes and all kinds of other complications. So, the school of thought was to make access easier...

However, access became too easy. I can tell you that, as someone that has gone the therapist route with supervision the entire time, as an actual trans person, I faced no gatekeeping - though I would have been blocked if I was old enough to try in the 80s, just because I'm a lesbian, even if I'm the idealized, ultra femme woman otherwise - I don't wear pants, opting to be in a dress and heels when I'm out of the house, I do a full face of makeup and style my long hair every day, etc. I'm just not attracted to guys... I think the therapy route is easy enough, IF you actually are trans... And let me state that I've known who I am since I was 3... but again, back in the 80s, nobody was going to listen to you - the words and identities weren't a part of common social knowledge, often even within the gay and lesbian communities.

But there are a lot of people that want to feel different and special, so they'll claim to be trans, especially non-binary so there isn't any expectation of them to fit a different role, just to get accolades... and there are a lot of people, especially butch lesbians, that think that they need their gender to conform to a gendered social role, so they're encouraged to start T and claim to be a guy, even though that isn't who they are... and these two groups are pushed to the front display of what it means to be trans by the social justice people, with the idea of "not wanting to leave them behind the way X group did to Y once X got what they wanted." And, for those that do take permanent medical steps, there can be a high level of regret. And, by focusing on them, you're only playing the game the social justice warriors set you up for.

Instead, let's look at someone like me. I was exhibiting signs even earlier than 3, but by the time I was 3, I definitively knew... and my parents knew something was up too, and my dad tried to force me to "be a man" like him. I knew that I needed to hide who I actually am, just to be able to survive... When I started kindergarten, I remember being upset that I didn't get to wear dresses to school like the other girls. At 8, I was upset that the girls got to go see a movie just for them (about periods) and I was excluded. Around that time, I had a dog bite me on my inner thigh, just missing my penis and I can remember my dad and grandpa being relieved that I still had my parts while I was internally pretty upset. By 9, I started to attempt to maim my unwanted parts, scalding them with hot water from the bathtub and other such niceties... and once puberty started, my life was a constant living hell, where everything went wrong - not just the "omg, I have hair there!?!?!?" wrong, but everything developed the opposite way of what it was supposed to for a girl. And by the time I started 7th grade, I was seriously considering castrating myself, only to find the internet, a usenet group for trans people, and learning that I'd need those parts later, so I didn't do it.

My teen years were some of the worst years of my life... I was rejected by my male cohorts for being too weak and feminine and my female cohorts for, well, being too weak and feminine. I was attracted to women, but they wouldn't give me the time of day, and, when my male peers weren't mocking me for being a loser, they were beating the shit out of me, calling me a "fag" and whatnot. All along the way, my family would drop hints that they knew something was up, because I wasn't doing any of the things my peers were doing... and my dad would give me random one line "pep talks" about things like "I'd rather be dead than a fag..."

Then outside of the home, it was a constant drum beat of gays are evil, homos are evil, AIDS is god's curse for being gay, etc... All of society puts weight on you to try to force you to conform to what they want you to be... and you're a monster if you don't. So, do you know what happens when you can't?

You try kill yourself... or at least spend a lot of time thinking about it. I've been desperate enough that I've had a loaded gun in my mouth. I spent a decade in a constant suicidal depression... and I gave up any hope of there being something worth living for. Life wasn't meaningless, the meaning of life was only to experience pain, torment, and anguish. There was no future, there was no purpose, and the only option I had, the only thing I could control, was my ability to end it all... but, straight up, I was too much of a chicken... not too scared to die, death doesn't scare me - too scared that I'd screw it up.

And, eventually, I accepted that I needed to transition... but I knew that, if I was going to transition, I had to be able to be stealth. I couldn't handle living in a world where I was constantly mocked... but, having gone through the wrong puberty, I knew the deck was already stacked against me... so I spent 6 months debating whether I should try, knowing how much it could cost me financially and socially, or whether I should just kill myself because I couldn't live with anything short of passing. And, so, I took my first steps...

I found a therapist and dumped my entire story on her before I finished filling out the paperwork, only for her to offer me my hormone letter right then since I already met all of the criteria... but I turned her down, because I needed to learn how to deal with the potential fallout with my family and friends, and learn that it is ok for me to accept myself and do what I needed to do for me. Eventually I accepted her offer for a letter and started my medical transition... and maybe a year in, my therapist already noted just how much my perspective on life had changed, switching to cautious hope from the certainty of desolate despair... and, with each step I took, things got better and better.

Eventually, hormones did enough that I couldn't hide my changes anymore... and I got my first dress, did my makeup, and put it all together for the first time to go see my therapist... and, when I looked in the mirror... I was stunned. I not only saw someone that passed for a girl, I saw a girl... and a couple weeks later, I filed my petition for a name change and went "full time." By the time my paperwork came back 3 months later, my insecurities were gone and I declared that my transition was 99% complete - the only thing missing was the surgery I needed for me, but that nobody else had to know about... and, with that, I was no longer transitioning or even a trans woman (though I will always be for certain medical and legal reasons), I was just another girl. And, after a few years on the waiting list, I had that surgery too.

I am complete... and I am imperfect. But, we all are... most importantly, I'm happy... and, outside of the occasional insecurity creeping up, often because I need to out myself for a particular situation, the gender dysphoria is gone. I'm cured. No regrets... not even having to wait as long as I did, because the experience made me a better person and more patient and understanding of the plight of other people.

And... if I didn't transition. I'd be dead. Maybe another opiate statistic that just happened to overdose getting a fix, but what you wouldn't know, was the need for that fix came because society said I couldn't be me. On that note, I know a lot of trans people addicted to opiates that started out by trying to mask anxiety, depression, and the feeling of helplessness.

So, by all means, ignore the experience of people like me and tout the "science" of people that praise pedophiles, condemn gays, and forcibly assign people without consent, in an effort to espouse your opinion as fact. Hedge your bets by saying "sure, intersex people are real, but they're so rare, we'll ignore them for this discussion" and then argue that brains aren't sexually dimorphic and don't count. After all, one person was "cured" by taking a schizophrenia drug.

If you're going to condemn all trans people and the experience we go through, start by telling me directly to my face, that transitioning is a horrible, terrible thing, and that I shouldn't have been allowed to do it. Tell me that my vaginoplasty was a crime against humanity and that my surgeon mutilated me. I'll reply with a picture of the cemetery plot I purchased years ago when suicide seemed like my only option, because that's where I'd be under your ideology.

And for the record, I've never experienced any type of schizoaffective disorder... Anxiety and depression from the years of shame and self-hatred I experienced from the wishes of people that condemn us, but nothing otherwise. I've never taken any type of mind/mood altering medicine or recreational drugs, I don't drink, and I've only taken opiates when prescribed (ie, for recovery from my surgery). Through all of the years of abuse from society, I persisted... I'm alive and happy because I was able to transition and I'm eternally grateful to the providers that helped to get me here. But again, have the strength of your convictions and condemn me to my face for doing it.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scrabble players move toward banning 200+ slurs from tournament play

As far as I know slang isn't usually allowed, so it seems reasonable on a certain level. The referenced word list has a few interesting exclusions. I had never heard Jesuit being considered offensive. On the wikipedia page, it states: "ethos represented the most intransigent opposition to the philosophy of Nazism", and so the Nazis considered them as one of their most dangerous enemies. And yet the word Nazi isn't on the list.

The word list page does mention that it allows words that have a "non-offensive" definition.. But that would mean Jesuit should also be allowed. Others seem a stretch. People can perceive offense in just about any word. Papist (and variants) are on the list. Seriously?

NASPA, whatever they are, thinks the words are so harmful, they cannot even be printed. They protect you by only printing anagrams of the words.

While this isn't legislation (yet), I'm reminded of the PMRC

Quote:
Frank Zappa asserted that "the PMRC proposal is an ill-conceived piece of nonsense which fails to deliver any real benefits to children, infringes the civil liberties of people who are not children, and promises to keep the courts busy for years dealing with the interpretation and enforcement problems inherent in the proposal's design."
Quote:
John Denver referred to the proposed labels as censorship and stated he was "strongly opposed to censorship of any kind in our society or anywhere else in the world", and that in his experience censors often misinterpret music, as was the case with his song "Rocky Mountain High". He further compared the PMRC proposals to Nazi book burnings,[6] and expressed his belief that censorship is ultimately counterproductive: "That which is denied becomes that which is most desired, and that which is hidden becomes that which is most interesting. Consequently, a great deal of time and energy is spent trying to get at what is being kept from you."
Quote:
[Dee] Snider told the panel that "Under the Blade" was inspired by a band member's surgery and was about the fear he imagined one would experience undergoing surgery, announcing that "the only sadomasochism, bondage, and rape in this song is in the mind of Ms. Gore." He further stated "Ms. Gore was looking for sadomasochism and bondage, and she found it. Someone looking for surgical references would have found it as well." Snider concluded that "The full responsibility for defending my children falls on the shoulders of my wife and I, because there is no one else capable of making these judgments for us."

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@noyb

Again, thanks for your comments. I hope you are or have been able to help others.

I had a fairly lengthy reply, but I somehow managed to delete the text while trying to scroll. :?

Short is probably best.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, lets be clear. Your moving from a false assumption. I'm not against legitimate transgender people at all. I do find it abhorrent how it has become common practice to groom young children into being transgender and effectively sterilize them before they even know what they are doing. Stats show 90% of these kids will not persist if they are allowed to develop normally. I firmly believe the remaining 10% should be treated politely and included in society on their terms. I also find the trend declared "transgender" who are also "gay" and make no effort whatsoever to preset as their stated gender to be complete morons. You should never sleep with crazy, and we can see who is calling those shots.

I have no issue with you nor what you are. What I do take issue with is the political groups who seek to use you as a pawn and suppress legitimate scientific research.

noyb wrote:
Since we're complaining about scientific laziness, let's be clear on this issue... it was a case, not a case study. It was an n=1... something to indicate that more research should be done, but not definitive proof.
That is what a case study is. Small sample size that indicates something is interesting but more work needed. I'm certainly not claiming this is what should be the standard of care for all patients. That would be absurd. But it should be actually studied instead of attacked for political reasons. We don't always have to like what the truth is.
noyb wrote:
There are a LOT of mental health issues within the trans community
Yes, I am aware of that. Very unfortunate, but I fear that is the price for denying that gender dysphoria is a mental condition which frequently manifest with other much more serous ones. Now please don't misunderstand. Just because it is a mental condition doesn't mean that people should be persecuted or forced into anything. Quite the contrary. You have to ask what is the least harmful way to treat something. I'm not an expert here and I'm not going to try and claim to know what is best. I'm just sure ignoring the obvious to spare people's feelings isn't it.

noyb wrote:
The Doctor wrote:
Another case, the inventor of gender reassignment surgery has since reversed his position and says he no longer believes it is medically justified. He is widely attacked for it.
You're going to have to be more clear on this one... because the inventor isn't alive today and it's not probably who you think it is... and if you're thinking it was Paul McHugh, you're drastically off by decades and this is a guy that thinks being gay is a mental disorder too. Basically, if you don't fit into his Christian conservative world view, you're a deviant.
I don't recall the name here, but after a quick search I don't think it was Paul. I didn't bring it up because I necessarily agree. I bring it up because it is a case of a mob deciding they don't like someone's opinion and/or scientific results and therefore he should be shut down. I certainly don't have any data on the effectiveness of gender reassignment as a treatment and I don't think it actually exists right now.

Although just because he is biased doesn't mean he is entirely wrong. Being gay is clearly not the normal function of human reproductive systems. Of course, there is no known treatment and all attempted ones have been very damaging. Given that fact accepting that it exists and letting people do what they want with other consenting adults seems to be by far the best way to "deal" with it.

noyb wrote:
These guys aren't exactly the pillar of scientific thought that you want to paint them as... but they fit your agenda, so you deem them credible.
Well, my point was kind of that scientific standards have been allowed to rot with political agenda...

I brought up the John/Joan case specifically because it disproves the idea that sex and gender are a social construct. This is what mainstream college programs and schools are teaching kids these days. The logical conclusion of this case is certainly that some groups of people might present with gender dysphoria. And I think we can trivially see that point is correct.

noyb wrote:
Now, getting into some harder science, studies of the brains, which are sexually dimorphic, of trans people, including fMRI, MRI, and postmortem examination, indicate that the brains of trans people correspond with the brain structures of the gender they identify as instead of the gender they were assigned at birth. In addition to chromosomal conditions which cause people to develop intersex conditions, people that can have proper XX or XY chromosomes can diverge during gestation, causing internal organs to differentiate from external ones... and much like ovaries, brains are another gendered internal organ.
The brain is a really amazing thing that can adapt at amazing speeds. Yes, this work is all fascinating. But it goes back to my point that it is allowed to proceed because certain vocal groups approve of the results. If they had found the opposite it would be hushed up as bigoted.

Now, the real question should be why is this the case and is it correctable? Surely a single prescription medication would be more effective long term than a highly invasive surgery followed by massive hormone therapies. At least some people might agree. I'd certainly like to see it researched and offered as an option if possible.

noyb wrote:
So, the difference between an involuntary reassignment at birth is different from an elective reassignment after a persistent and consistent declaration of gender identity divergent from the one assigned at birth matters how?
It only matters when the augment presented is that gender and sex are a social construct as is the mainstream consensus taught in Universities.

noyb wrote:
The result of this policy, was trans people that couldn't get medical care went to the DIY school of pharmacy and found back channel ways of acquiring hormones - today, there are overseas pharmacies that will supply you, but back then, you might hit up a steroid dealer or have a female friend get birth control pills for you... and without medical supervision, people were causing a lot of harm to themselves, resulting in strokes and all kinds of other complications. So, the school of thought was to make access easier...
Its a school of thought I do have to fundamentally disagree with. Teenagers like sex and fast cars but you don't give them free access to all the "working ladies" and Ferrari you can. But this is a minor point.

Fundamentally I agree with you. Gender dysphoria is real and should be taken seriously. Transitioning seems to be the best standard of care available right now. The biggest issue I see is that it has become a political issue to transition as many people as possible with little to no oversight. Particularly when it comes to rubber stamping young kids.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
@noyb

Again, thanks for your comments. I hope you are or have been able to help others.


I do, literally every single day...

and I've had other Gentoo users that are trans that have reached out to me privately over the years, thanking me for speaking up about my story rather than letting transphobic ideology run unchecked here.

We're absolutely over-represented in tech fields in terms of demographics (tech doesn't care who you are, but what you can do), even if we find tech fields to be some of the most transphobic places to be sometimes too (often a case of sexually oppressed nerds finding another group to oppress to make them feel better about their own plight, sometimes doubly so if internalized homophobia hits because they fear that the girl they're attracted to "might make they gay" if she happens to be trans (out or stealth)).
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Doctor wrote:

noyb wrote:
Since we're complaining about scientific laziness, let's be clear on this issue... it was a case, not a case study. It was an n=1... something to indicate that more research should be done, but not definitive proof.
That is what a case study is. Small sample size that indicates something is interesting but more work needed. I'm certainly not claiming this is what should be the standard of care for all patients. That would be absurd. But it should be actually studied instead of attacked for political reasons. We don't always have to like what the truth is.


If done properly, I don't have a problem studying it as a potential treatment... my fear would be that it would be another form of imposed attempted conversion therapy, so a comprehensive study is going to have to ensure that participants are willing - but just by doing that, you're already putting your thumb on the scale by selecting for a desired outcome.

The Doctor wrote:

noyb wrote:
There are a LOT of mental health issues within the trans community
Yes, I am aware of that. Very unfortunate, but I fear that is the price for denying that gender dysphoria is a mental condition which frequently manifest with other much more serous ones. Now please don't misunderstand. Just because it is a mental condition doesn't mean that people should be persecuted or forced into anything. Quite the contrary. You have to ask what is the least harmful way to treat something. I'm not an expert here and I'm not going to try and claim to know what is best. I'm just sure ignoring the obvious to spare people's feelings isn't it.


So, here's an area we're going to agree, but disagree on... gender dysphoria is a very real thing and it quite literally is the demarcation between trans and not trans. Yeah, I said it. That doesn't mean that you have to have dysphoria revolving your entire condition (I know people that are genuinely trans but don't want surgery for one of many different reasons, including that their genitals don't bother them after medically and socially transitioning otherwise)... but if you've never experienced gender dysphoria to some degree, you're not trans... full stop.

But where we'll disagree is the classification of gender dysphoria as a mental condition... surely, it exhibits behavioral conditions, BUT... it is fundamentally rooted in divergent hardware, making it a medical condition, not a mental condition. Someone that has Parkinson's disease can exhibit behavioral issues, but the fault lies in hardware that isn't working as intended - it's medical, not mental.

Being a part of the trans community, but also being a part of the provider community, regularly hanging out with medical doctors and PhDs working in the field, I can tell you that there are a number of likely reasons why people end up trans (real trans, not trender trans)... and the most common ones are intersex chromosomal conditions (XXY, XYY, damaged SRY gene, etc) and gestational issues (during fetal development, different hormonal baths occur that develop the nervous system and sex organs from the default female to the altered male state at different times - too much testosterone during one stage and not enough during the other can cause the brain to develop one gender while the body develops in another direction - either completely or partially). The big thing separating transsexuals from intersex people was the assertion that brains weren't sexually dimorphic and, thus, didn't count as an internal gender development issue, so it was lumped into behavior issues instead.

There have always been trans people in history... but today, it's entirely possible that there are more of us because of what environmental factors do to both chromosomal expression and how fetal development can also be affected. Science tells us that our drinking water is full of estrogens since birth control pills are water soluble, and, through the water cycle, it gets back into our drinking water. Companies illegally dumped chemicals all over the place for the last century, exposing us to who knows what in what combinations and potency. Exposure to radioactive sources - xrays, CTs, nuclear testing, etc, can cause genetic anomalies. Drugs women take can affect fetal development, sometimes even years after they halted their use, and, one early birth control drug not only affected the woman's eggs, but her daughter's eggs as well.

All of these things are not rooted in mental health and behavior, but physical hardware issues... and you can try to force your 8086 instructions to run on an 6809 all day long, but the 6809 is never going to operate the way you want it to because it doesn't have the right instruction set, even if you stamp a 8086 label on the top of it.

And, because gender dysphoria is lumped into behavioral issues, even if it isn't stigmatized as gender identity DISORDER anymore, it's still stigmatized as a mental health issue rather than a physical health issue, which means people will oppose research just because they don't believe in mental health issues or treating them... not to mention religious zealots that see trans people as evil and opposed to "god's will." We wouldn't think of telling someone born with a cleft pallet "well, sucks to be you, god's will," we'd fix their issue, but the stigma prevents research from being done...

The Doctor wrote:

noyb wrote:
The Doctor wrote:
Another case, the inventor of gender reassignment surgery has since reversed his position and says he no longer believes it is medically justified. He is widely attacked for it.
You're going to have to be more clear on this one... because the inventor isn't alive today and it's not probably who you think it is... and if you're thinking it was Paul McHugh, you're drastically off by decades and this is a guy that thinks being gay is a mental disorder too. Basically, if you don't fit into his Christian conservative world view, you're a deviant.
I don't recall the name here, but after a quick search I don't think it was Paul. I didn't bring it up because I necessarily agree. I bring it up because it is a case of a mob deciding they don't like someone's opinion and/or scientific results and therefore he should be shut down. I certainly don't have any data on the effectiveness of gender reassignment as a treatment and I don't think it actually exists right now.


There's a "study" touted by proponents of autogynephilia (a conjecture that says trans people don't really exist, we're all just men that get off on feminizing our body for our own sexual gratification) by Anne Lawrence (who uses female pronouns, but is an autogynephile, making her a man that gets off on feminizing himself per her self proclaimed ideology) that purports that trans people are full of regret about transitioning and have no improvement in their happiness and satisfaction post-op. The reality is, it wasn't a study, it was a self-selective survey of her clients. It wasn't randomized, it wasn't blind, and, again, it's another case of a "researcher" starting with an agenda and, surprisingly, getting exactly the outcome she wanted. This is the one people like Steven Crowder like to throw around, which, again, just shows that people don't care about half-assed research as long as it validates their own assumptions and biases.

The Doctor wrote:

Although just because he is biased doesn't mean he is entirely wrong. Being gay is clearly not the normal function of human reproductive systems. Of course, there is no known treatment and all attempted ones have been very damaging. Given that fact accepting that it exists and letting people do what they want with other consenting adults seems to be by far the best way to "deal" with it.


There are evolutionary benefits to having some members of society be non-reproducing members... which is probably why natural selection hasn't eliminated the phenomenon.

But, as a libertarian, I believe that people have the right to do whatever they want, so long as they are not hurting anyone else and the people they're engaging with are adults that consent to whatever. I can find behaviors morally or mentally repugnant, but if those behaviors aren't harming someone else, it's not my business.

The Doctor wrote:

noyb wrote:
These guys aren't exactly the pillar of scientific thought that you want to paint them as... but they fit your agenda, so you deem them credible.
Well, my point was kind of that scientific standards have been allowed to rot with political agenda...

I brought up the John/Joan case specifically because it disproves the idea that sex and gender are a social construct. This is what mainstream college programs and schools are teaching kids these days. The logical conclusion of this case is certainly that some groups of people might present with gender dysphoria. And I think we can trivially see that point is correct.


To some degree, gender roles and expressions ARE a social construct... is there a reason why women wear dresses/skirts and men don't in most cultures? As a woman that lives in dresses because I like to wear dresses, there are some great advantages, like being cooler on a hot day like today was, particularly since my arms, cleavage, and legs are exposed to air and the breeze, but there are disadvantages too, which is why you aren't welding your exhaust in a dress... So, guys wear practical pants so they can do guy stuff, while women wear dresses... so guys can have easy access to what is under the dress. Women wear makeup to be more attractive... none of that is ingrained in our genetics, it's cultural behavior.

That said, guys are naturally bigger and stronger, so, yeah, the average guy is going to be more able to protect a mate than the average woman in hand to hand combat. The differences testosterone makes in body development is enormous and undeniable. Women, being smaller, actually make better fighter pilots though, which, again, is a real physical difference, not a cultural construct. Nothing in our genetics say that mom can't be a fighter pilot while dad is a stay at home parent, though, which is part of the social construct.

Oh, and, btw... I'm in dresses, heels, makeup, etc all the time because that's who I am and it's what makes me happy... is there a layer of "this is what society tells women the ideal is" in there? Undoubtedly... I feel secure in embracing the femininity I was always denied access to in my younger life, and, as someone that is just on the "very femme" end of the spectrum, it's who I am. So I go to work dressed ready to go to a black tie event after work and I wear a bikini at the beach... and that's ok. Dear feminists, not all women want to act, dress, or be like dudes, some of us like to embrace our femininity... and, on that note, I routinely have guys that will tell me that "it's nice to see a woman that actually dresses like a woman." Sure, it's somewhat sexist, but so is the woman that tells me I'm not allowed to dress the way I want, I'm supposed to dress according to her wishes.

And, ironically, being a femme woman that is nearly exclusively into other femme women, yeah, we all assume the girls we're interested in are straight too, so we struggle to interact with each other... but that leads back into some more of the valid issues of how society is dismissive of the needs of women that like women. As much as I think gender studies is a farce, I agreed with a lot of what is in here, and then multiply that by the internalized narratives pushed by TERFs and their allies that, as a trans women that's a lesbian, I'm an even bigger predator in addition to all of the other female typical social conditioning I absorbed growing up.


The Doctor wrote:

noyb wrote:
Now, getting into some harder science, studies of the brains, which are sexually dimorphic, of trans people, including fMRI, MRI, and postmortem examination, indicate that the brains of trans people correspond with the brain structures of the gender they identify as instead of the gender they were assigned at birth. In addition to chromosomal conditions which cause people to develop intersex conditions, people that can have proper XX or XY chromosomes can diverge during gestation, causing internal organs to differentiate from external ones... and much like ovaries, brains are another gendered internal organ.
The brain is a really amazing thing that can adapt at amazing speeds. Yes, this work is all fascinating. But it goes back to my point that it is allowed to proceed because certain vocal groups approve of the results. If they had found the opposite it would be hushed up as bigoted.


Being part of the community, I can tell you that it is celebrated because it validates the fact that we are real and it's not just a mental health issue... I regularly see trans people come across the study and feel the need to share it with everyone, just because, maybe for the first time in your life, you're accepted as valid.

The Doctor wrote:

Now, the real question should be why is this the case and is it correctable? Surely a single prescription medication would be more effective long term than a highly invasive surgery followed by massive hormone therapies. At least some people might agree. I'd certainly like to see it researched and offered as an option if possible.


I'd love to see research with an option if it actually works for people... but right now, the treatment providing the best outcome, is the treatment path which includes therapy, hormonal intervention, and possibly surgery. With our current knowledge, it's far easier to change the body than it is to rewire the brain... particularly if that brain has a hardware issue that can't be corrected with a microcode update because the silicon just doesn't work that way.

The Doctor wrote:

noyb wrote:
So, the difference between an involuntary reassignment at birth is different from an elective reassignment after a persistent and consistent declaration of gender identity divergent from the one assigned at birth matters how?
It only matters when the augment presented is that gender and sex are a social construct as is the mainstream consensus taught in Universities.


As I've said previously, I have a lot of issues with how the SJW types and trans activists want to portray these things... In the long run, I think they often cause as much harm as they're trying to mitigate... See affirmative action also creating the stigma that a minority can't earn a job on their own, they need to be granted special favors by woke majority members (the assumption which lies in blatantly racism and "the soft bigotry of low expectations" among the woke) - but again, that's the neighboring branch in the same college lecturing us about their ideals with bad science.

The Doctor wrote:

noyb wrote:
The result of this policy, was trans people that couldn't get medical care went to the DIY school of pharmacy and found back channel ways of acquiring hormones - today, there are overseas pharmacies that will supply you, but back then, you might hit up a steroid dealer or have a female friend get birth control pills for you... and without medical supervision, people were causing a lot of harm to themselves, resulting in strokes and all kinds of other complications. So, the school of thought was to make access easier...
Its a school of thought I do have to fundamentally disagree with. Teenagers like sex and fast cars but you don't give them free access to all the "working ladies" and Ferrari you can. But this is a minor point.

Fundamentally I agree with you. Gender dysphoria is real and should be taken seriously. Transitioning seems to be the best standard of care available right now. The biggest issue I see is that it has become a political issue to transition as many people as possible with little to no oversight. Particularly when it comes to rubber stamping young kids.


Like I said, I believe there was an over correction in expanding access to care, which took things too far in the other direction... but it happened because people needed to subvert a system that refused to acknowledge their needs (see again that bit about validation above).

And trans kids are real... I was one of them, and, as much as I don't regret waiting to transition in some ways, I look at other members of the transsexual community that never went through the wrong puberty and part of me feels the opportunities I missed and the physical damage I'll always carry because I went through the wrong one first. I'm extremely, extremely fortunate that I didn't have a ton of masculinization (I'm mostly girl sized at 5'5" and can fit into things off the rack, but I did have a ton of thick facial hair and a slightly receding hair line that I'm insecure about, but which is still within the range of normal for women, I spent two years doing voice therapy to learn to not have a radio voice, etc), but some of these girls are flawless...

Anyway, that's not to say the trenders are real... but we shouldn't throw out the actual trans kids and their needs just because some, maybe most, of their peers claiming to be trans, aren't actually trans. It comes back to the trans community's biggest need - access to better mental health care, because even if it is a physical condition for most, as I assert, you're still dealing with a life of anxiety, depression, rejection of social norms, etc when you do transition and I found my therapist to be a wonderful person to help me navigate through that journey. She's been there for my highs, like that first time I saw a girl looking back at me in the mirror, and the lows, like when a doctor decided to discriminate against me, intentionally committing malpractice because of privileged information he found in my chart, resulting in three months of going to therapy twice per week when I had been stable enough to go once a month for maintenance before that (and 3 years later, I still break down in tears when I tell people that story).
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@noyb Thank you for sharing your story. Although I have heard some interviews with transgender people I never read a detailed story before.
How many of the children who seriously make an experience they might be traped in the wrong gender do end up conforming with their body? Is there valide testing available that can forecast any outcome?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Scrabble players move toward banning 200+ slurs from tournament play


I'm surprised chess isn't in the crosshairs yet.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:
@noyb Thank you for sharing your story. Although I have heard some interviews with transgender people I never read a detailed story before.


There are a lot of experiences written out there... What I shared is just part of my own experience and I didn't go into too much depth, in case someone decided to try to dox me over it.

And, while not a direct reply to you, in my previous post, written late at night, I forgot to add that, transitioning younger would not have only improved my physical outcome, but also my mental health as well... it would have been that many fewer years of self hate, suicidal depression, etc that could have been replaced by self acceptance and the ability to have a life. It would be that much less emotional damage to have to work through.

Quote:

How many of the children who seriously make an experience they might be traped in the wrong gender do end up conforming with their body? Is there valide testing available that can forecast any outcome?


Again, there are no good statistical studies on it... A lot of providers tend to fall into one extreme or the other - either too permissive or too restrictive with who has access to transition. There also aren't any numbers separating people that are truly trans from people that are just questioning their gender, gender role, gender expression, etc.

There's no definitive test for gender dysphoria... You either have it or you don't, and if you don't have it, attempting to transition will cause it, so some providers use access to HRT as a means of confirming whether or not someone likely has gender dysphoria. Theoretically, we could build in the research that has already been done showing brain structure correlation, but that, in itself, isn't necessarily definitive, since not everyone may have brain structures that directly correlate to their internal gender identity.

There's a lot of research that needs to be done, but little money available because of the stigma associated with transsexualism from the religious and social conservative types, but, as others point out, from the progressive and SJW types that are vested in their own ideology.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

noyb wrote:
ulenrich wrote:
@noyb Thank you for sharing your story. Although I have heard some interviews with transgender people I never read a detailed story before.


There are a lot of experiences written out there... What I shared is just part of my own experience and I didn't go into too much depth, in case someone decided to try to dox me over it.

And, while not a direct reply to you, in my previous post, written late at night, I forgot to add that, transitioning younger would not have only improved my physical outcome, but also my mental health as well... it would have been that many fewer years of self hate, suicidal depression, etc that could have been replaced by self acceptance and the ability to have a life. It would be that much less emotional damage to have to work through.

This was my impression from your writings: Hormone replacement therapy in a very young age would have been best for you. Therefore I asked
noyb wrote:
Quote:
How many of the children who seriously make an experience they might be traped in the wrong gender do end up conforming with their body? Is there valide testing available that can forecast any outcome?


Again, there are no good statistical studies on it... A lot of providers tend to fall into one extreme or the other - either too permissive or too restrictive with who has access to transition. There also aren't any numbers separating people that are truly trans from people that are just questioning their gender, gender role, gender expression, etc.

A test for gender dysphoria with error probabilities is a risk for treatment of children from an ethical point of view. But if you are allowed in the U.S. to drive a car with 16y and kill innocent people with this machine, the age limit for transgender transformation should not be higher. How much lower can an age limit be: 14, 12 or younger? Much depends on a diagnostic toolkit that achieves certainty ...

Also interesting might be how other cultures manage an outcome to the better: I know of a temple school in the middle of India where 8y old boys are sent to from far away and they become likely feminine priests there. Also the Thai people have an acknowledged role for the special women.

Though also in our culture you can put children with gender dysphoria together in schools. Just like you put children in schools for special musical education. That way these children are not distracted by the attacks of a "normal" majority. But they can learn of differences between them and therefore manage to become clear of the fate they want in life. I guess such an environment would have helped you as teen?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:

This was my impression from your writings: Hormone replacement therapy in a very young age would have been best for you. Therefore I asked


Undoubtedly, I would have benefited... even if all I got to do, was go on leuprorelin to delay puberty from happening until I was old enough to reasonably consent to having the proper puberty for me, it would have been a miracle... I'd just end up a late bloomer, which happens all the time. However, it would have prevented the wrong puberty from taking place completely. And that is the protocol most young transitioners follow today - you simply get placed on a puberty blocker and then, around the time you're 16, you get to decide whether to start hormone therapy, and then corrective surgical options usually open up at 18.

And it's easy to say "pfft, what does a 14 year old know? I didn't know anything then, even though I thought I knew it all..." well, sometimes, we just know. I'm sure there are those of us here that knew what we wanted to do for a career or maybe we already had met our significant other and starting planning for a lifetime together. This isn't any different - not every kid is lost.



ulenrich wrote:
A test for gender dysphoria with error probabilities is a risk for treatment of children from an ethical point of view. But if you are allowed in the U.S. to drive a car with 16y and kill innocent people with this machine, the age limit for transgender transformation should not be higher. How much lower can an age limit be: 14, 12 or younger? Much depends on a diagnostic toolkit that achieves certainty ...

Also interesting might be how other cultures manage an outcome to the better: I know of a temple school in the middle of India where 8y old boys are sent to from far away and they become likely feminine priests there. Also the Thai people have an acknowledged role for the special women.

Though also in our culture you can put children with gender dysphoria together in schools. Just like you put children in schools for special musical education. That way these children are not distracted by the attacks of a "normal" majority. But they can learn of differences between them and therefore manage to become clear of the fate they want in life. I guess such an environment would have helped you as teen?


Living in isolation may make things easier during that time, but at some point, you have to go live out in the real world... and the longer you avoid general society, the harder it is going to be to face it once you no longer live in the protective bubble.

I know a local psychologist that works exclusively with trans kids and, not only sees the kids one on one, but also does group therapy for them and encourages them to spend time together if they live in the same area... because one of the top two factors that determines whether someone will have a successful transition, is having a social support system in place.

The other big factor is money - it simply costs a lot to transition (beard removal is $15-20k, endocrinologists, hormones and lab work can be $1-2k per year, my vaginoplasty was around $125k between the surgeon and the hospital (and phalloplasty is 2-4x the cost of vaginoplasty), etc, not to mention needing to take 2 months off from work to recover from surgery - and sure, insurance pays for a lot of that these days, but not all of it). The primary reason why a significant portion of the trans community hates Caitlyn Jenner is because she had access to the funds required to complete her transition.

Anyway, the social group thing does have the downside of encouraging people, especially kids, to proclaim a trans or gender nonconforming identity as a status symbol... it makes them special by default and gives them an excuse to thumb their nose at you. It truly is a significant problem that so many people are pretending to be trans because it's screwing up the ability to transition for people that are genuinely trans. There are a finite amount of resources out there to begin with and they're being wasted on people that are abusing the system.

And that all comes back to over-correcting the ease of access to the system today. You should be willing to put up a little bit of a fight to get treatment... prove that it means that much to you. Simply declaring yourself to be a non-binary agender asexual lesbian switch doesn't make you one (for starters, if a lesbian is a woman that likes woman and you're non-binary, your declaration of identity makes you not a lesbian because you're not a woman even if you are attracted to women).

There needs to be a persistent and consistent declaration of identity over a significant period of time before you should be taken seriously... and we need to realize that just because you don't fit into a stereotypical gender role or expression doesn't mean you're trans - it's perfectly valid to be a butch lesbian, you don't have to transition and pretend to be a straight dude if you don't fundamentally identify as a guy, just grow your mullet, let your few chin hairs grow out, and rock your black jeans, wife beater, and work boots. :lol:

But society does have to accept that trans people exist and are valid... and, I do believe that by supporting actual trans people, the "specialness" of being trans will go away and a lot of the trenders will go away too. Especially if we also admit that being a bull dyke or a twink are valid identities too. But again, both the social conservatives and SJWs gain power by invalidating all of these identities to manipulate people.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@noyb
Conservative people may be horryfied when they see so many young folks seemingly want to become the other gender. The most of them seek a way to get the exceptional status. This nurtures a pandemic of narcism and seems the valuable way to get a living on Youtube for many. That acknowledged but there are woman brains in man bodies, like you had to live. The opposite direction also ...

I was young in the eighties. We didn't want to be defined by this simple bipolarity. We wanted to be undefined and all. The most wild such an adventure was on a party, when I had color in my long hair and glitter around the eyes. I met that girl I was sure was a lesbian. And we walked down under the river Elbe through the old tunnel to the other side with something to smoke. We walked for hours through steamy refineries and harbor installations until the sun lurked through.

To this day I try to imagine in a woman the man when falling in love: Do I like her character in the other gender? So, it was not a new thing for me, that a man brain may be in the body of a woman. You can train yourself to see it. I learned the most beautiful women are moving their bodies often in a very maskuline way. You can hear them walk, if they have the appartment above.

To change my body is beyond me, not even a tattoo.
I have one critical thought against changing the body in general: When watching pornographic videos nowadays I rarily see natural bodies. Mostly I can see disguised bodies with fashionable hips, lips and breasts. In future also transformed ears, arms and foreheads .... If a porno shows a natural woman this video is called "her first time". For sure you can see this same woman a month later in a "body a la mode". This is disgusting because it hides the beauty of the body invented by nature. Three thousand years of art to catch this beauty are forgotten.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:
noyb wrote:
ulenrich wrote:
@noyb Thank you for sharing your story. Although I have heard some interviews with transgender people I never read a detailed story before.


There are a lot of experiences written out there... What I shared is just part of my own experience and I didn't go into too much depth, in case someone decided to try to dox me over it.

And, while not a direct reply to you, in my previous post, written late at night, I forgot to add that, transitioning younger would not have only improved my physical outcome, but also my mental health as well... it would have been that many fewer years of self hate, suicidal depression, etc that could have been replaced by self acceptance and the ability to have a life. It would be that much less emotional damage to have to work through.

This was my impression from your writings: Hormone replacement therapy in a very young age would have been best for you. Therefore I asked
FYI, for young kids that is a 90% do not grow up to identify as transgender. In short, no you really cannot do anything for transgender kids without doing serous harm to the vast majority.
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