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bammbamm808
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:41 pm    Post subject: Discuss Reply with quote

https://www.reddit.com/r/Gentoo/comments/h9ml36/the_unfortunate_etymology_of_the_gentoo_name/
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bammbamm808,

Offence is taken, not given.
To bring this up to the present, I guess we won't be seeing reruns of Sparticus or Ben Hur any more.
Its also a fashion. e.g. Being homosexual has been in out of fashion since before the Romans.

As Douglas Adams penned. What a load of dingos kidneys.
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bammbamm808
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
bammbamm808,

Offence is taken, not given.
To bring this up to the present, I guess we won't be seeing reruns of Sparticus or Ben Hur any more.
Its also a fashion. e.g. Being homosexual has been in out of fashion since before the Romans.

As Douglas Adams penned. What a load of dingos kidneys.

Yes, its a pathetic load.of crap.
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etnull
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't know they have this 'disease' in India... though 1.35B of people... someone is going to be offended by pure chance.
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coderanger
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3097640/The-Luft-wafer-Ice-cream-cone-named-Adolf-Hitler-sale-India-sparks-anger-Germany.html
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bammbamm808
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

etnull wrote:
I didn't know they have this 'disease' in India... though 1.35B of people... someone is going to be offended by pure chance.

Coinsidering the odors, factions, cults, riots, strife, outrages, crowding, etc. etc., I'm surprised anyone there can manage to offended by anything.
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Ant P.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a big difference between calling out people who are being deliberately edgy with misuse of language, and using a throwaway Reddit account to concern troll over some obscure reference you found. I don't think accusing the distro's founders of failing to do research is being done in good faith at all, considering Gentoo Linux predates things like Wikipedia entirely. How were they supposed to know? What does knowing this accomplish?

Should we also demand a rename of Fedora given that it's a well known slur used against well-read-and-empty-of-head Reddit users (hint hint)? No.

This is some 4chan opportunist on a witch hunt to burn everything down because github changed a word and sent him into a rage. You can smell 'em a mile off, they have no tact and no opsec. Ignore.
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erm67
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indian Lives Matter
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Naib
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant P. wrote:
There's a big difference between calling out people who are being deliberately edgy with misuse of language, and using a throwaway Reddit account to concern troll over some obscure reference you found. I don't think accusing the distro's founders of failing to do research is being done in good faith at all, considering Gentoo Linux predates things like Wikipedia entirely. How were they supposed to know? What does knowing this accomplish?

Should we also demand a rename of Fedora given that it's a well known slur used against well-read-and-empty-of-head Reddit users (hint hint)? No.

This is some 4chan opportunist on a witch hunt to burn everything down because github changed a word and sent him into a rage. You can smell 'em a mile off, they have no tact and no opsec. Ignore.
Can you be sure? an ex-MP just this week started to publicly shame Kellogg's because they used a monkey as the logo for coco pops

and I quote
Quote:
@KelloggsUK, as you are yet to reply to my email - Coco Pops and Rice Krispies have the same compòsition (except for the fact CP's are brown and chocolate flavoured)... so I was wondering why Rice Krispies have three white boys representing the brand and Coco Pops have a monkey?


people are looking for things to offend now either people bow down on these fringe things people choose to take offense at or they are shut down for trying to sensationalise something and marginalising the real concerns
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heard on the radio that the BBC is pulling the Fawlty Towers "German" episode because of the forbidden word.

"For I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." - Thomas Jefferson.

Oh. He owned slaves, so all his writing should be banned too, Right? Especially the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights.
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etnull
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's only going to get worse from here, how many thousands are graduating each year with gender-studies degree and other humanities? They surely will find a way to utilize their expertise somewhere.
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Anon-E-moose
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ooohhh, I'm offended that you're offended :wink:
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Fitzcarraldo
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding the statement "The word gentoo comes from the colonial Portuguese term to differentiate Hindus and Muslims. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentoo_(term)" in that reddit post, not everything in Wikipedia is necessarily correct.

If the Portuguese in colonial times did use that term -- and I'm not saying they actually did -- I suspect that the Portuguese would have actually used the Portuguese word 'gentio', which sounds rather like 'gentoo' when spoken in Portuguese. The Portuguese word 'gentio' literally means 'gentile' in English, i.e. someone of a different religion to the (Christian) Portuguese. Therefore I suspect that, if the Portuguese colonists did in fact use the word 'gentio', they were referring to both Hindus and Muslims. In those days, calling someone of a different faith a gentile may well have been derogatory, but it may also have been used by Christian missionaries in a non-derogatory sense to describe the non-Christian local population.

By the way, a few Portuguese words may have been anglicised over the centuries. For example, one theory (of several) about the origin of the English name for the now-extinct Raphus cucullatus is that British sailors in the 16th and 17th Centuries heard Portuguese sailors refer to the bird as 'doido' (daft/crazy) in Portuguese because it was not scared of humans and therefore easy to catch. The Brits heard 'doido' and called the birds 'dodos'.

Tony,

Thankfully it's been re-instated after public outcry:

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2020/jun/12/john-cleese-attacks-stupid-removal-of-fawlty-towers-episode
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mrbassie
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
Indian Lives Matter


Careful, George Lucas will sue you.
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e3k
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i guess due to entropy any combination of letters can have insulting properties. you just have to have a long time span toward future or past. what if we abandon the alphabet altogether. problem solved. you all owe me a beer.
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

... and this too shall pass away.
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Naib
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
... and this too shall pass away.
no it won't... identity politics has been growing strength by strength since the 60s and each time they piggyback on some outcry as it is hard to dismiss their stance when it is entangled in some accepted offensive geopolitical event ... "what do you mean you are defending the lynchmob. all logic and reasoning will not work when a political stance is entangled like that ... i mean ffs they want to tear down Lord Earl Grey in London due to BLM... the same PM that outlawed slavery in the British Empire
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mrbassie
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
NeddySeagoon wrote:
... and this too shall pass away.
no it won't... identity politics has been growing strength by strength since the 60s and each time they piggyback on some outcry as it is hard to dismiss their stance when it is entangled in some accepted offensive geopolitical event ... "what do you mean you are defending the lynchmob. all logic and reasoning will not work when a political stance is entangled like that ... i mean ffs they want to tear down Lord Earl Grey in London due to BLM... the same PM that outlawed slavery in the British Empire


Yeah but tea comes from India (even though it doesn't) so Earl Grey calling himself that is cultural appropriation...and you're not allowed to put milk in it...
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szatox
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib: It will.... By fire be purged *

There are 2 thing you can do when people say they're offended:
1) apologize, showing weakness, so they will never get off of you
2) tell them to get lost, optionally backing it with an insult. And they will, for bitching about you not giving in is counterproductive. It gets in the way of looking for an easier target.

* it seems that the war I predicted roughly 2 years ago has already started. Gotta admit, I didn't think it would be fought with a combination if bio-weapons (plural), mob, and main drain media.


There is a funny thing about cultural appropriation too. And also about copyright.
Using other people's achievements used to be considered a compliment. It implies the particular thing is valuable.
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems to me that there was a rich European musical culture when it was open source before copyright.

About a month ago I heard of a case, I think it was George Harrison with "My sweet Lord" that ruled he violated a copyright by playing four notes.
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szatox
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, it was before copyright. I'm pretty sure it was the case in 16th century, chances are it spanned a much much longer time. The history of copyright itself is quite interesting too. I don't remember all the details, but I think it originates from England, and was devised as an easy way to censor print. Like in "you keep information in check and I keep your competition in check".
And before copyright it was common in the music world, in literature (including some translations, e.g. poems would be signed with the name of the translator and not the original author). Since it was widely accepted, I suppose that would also cover paintings and other forms of art too.
And we're talking about things where it is possible to credit a particular individual for his input.

And now some folks throw tantrums about tradition, which could be defined as something developed and maintained by a particular population over multiple generations. So there isn't even anybody to credit for the original idea.
What was the word for that.... A professional victim?


Quote:
that ruled he violated a copyright by playing four notes.
Savage.
On a lighter note, just a few weeks ago there was a hilarious case of Sony copystriking itself in the foot: https://www.reddit.com/r/thequartering/comments/gr7vaz/instant_karma_naughty_dog_sony_copy_strikes/
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erm67
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrbassie wrote:
erm67 wrote:
Indian Lives Matter


Careful, George Lucas will sue you.


I have already reached nerd immunity
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mrbassie
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
mrbassie wrote:
erm67 wrote:
Indian Lives Matter


Careful, George Lucas will sue you.


I have already reached nerd immunity


No'one is immune to the georgester
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lcsavb
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fitzcarraldo wrote:

If the Portuguese in colonial times did use that term -- and I'm not saying they actually did -- I suspect that the Portuguese would have actually used the Portuguese word 'gentio', which sounds rather like 'gentoo' when spoken in Portuguese. The Portuguese word 'gentio' literally means 'gentile' in English, i.e. someone of a different religion to the (Christian) Portuguese. Therefore I suspect that, if the Portuguese colonists did in fact use the word 'gentio', they were referring to both Hindus and Muslims. In those days, calling someone of a different faith a gentile may well have been derogatory, but it may also have been used by Christian missionaries in a non-derogatory sense to describe the non-Christian local population.


The Portuguese did use this word and it's very common to find it in brazilian and portuguese novels from the 19th century.
But I reckon it's much older, in fact it's biblical and was used to refer to people that did not follow the judaic faith. And, yes, not always in a derrogatory way: they could live and trade with jews, a lot of them were respectful to god and their children would be considered jews if they converted to judaism.

Reference:
https://www.respostas.com.br/quem-eram-os-gentios-na-biblia/

About the pronunciation I don't find it very similar, but I can understand the aproximation. As a matter of fact the correct translation to english would be gentile or heathenish. For the sake of curiosity the portuguese word gentiL, which is spoken almost the same as gentio, means kind.

Those people that are offended by words amuse me. For sure the education of the newest generations make it harder to them understand there's a lot more involved in the making of a righteous and honest human being. Who's the best? An uneducated and political incorrect worker who bust his ass to provide to his family or an elegant priest that hypnotizes his herd with beautiful oratory and later on has a lot of fun backstage? It's always easier to judge a book by his cover. I'm glad I am an atheist gentio and a former Windows user.
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Fitzcarraldo
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bottom line is that the Portuguese were not using the word 'gentoo', so the statement in Wikipedia is misleading and the reddit user is in effect complaining about the wrong word. If he wants to complain about something, he should be complaining about the word 'gentio' (which was corrupted/misheard by non-Portuguese speakers as 'gentoo'), which has nothing to do with Gentoo Linux or penguins (and would also be a waste of time).
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