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crocket
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:10 pm    Post subject: How do you install Gentoo on Rock Pi S? Reply with quote

I'm somewhat dumbfounded because I cannot find instructions.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hehe, of course
probably the easiest way would be a chroot:
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Chroot
if you had enough RAM to emerge of course, 256 is not enough, with 512 is probably painful.

Anyway create a /gentoo dir, extract a stage3 generic armv8 into it, mount dirs, chroot into it and emerge -e world. once you are done exit the chroot, go into single user mode and mv all dirs in / into /ubuntu and all dirs from /gentoo in /


there are other ways of course
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to learn to build kernel, u-boot, and other files manually.

I'm looking for a minimal single board computer to save costs and research.
For now, I may stick with qemu-aarch64 chroot and cross distcc. Perhaps, just fixing cross distcc may accelerate the upgrade process because cross distcc doesn't distribute workload most of the time.

Models I have considered
  • Rock Pi S
    • I cannot build radxa downstream u-boot for Rock Pi S because it is broken at this moment.
  • https://forum.loverpi.com/categories/libre-computer-aml-s805x-ac
    • This one is ~28 US dollars including shipping. It supports mainline linux and mainline u-boot which actually builds.
  • https://forum.loverpi.com/categories/libre-computer-aml-s905x-cc
  • Raspberry Pi 3 A+
    • ~29 US dollars including shipping on aliexpress.com
    • I know this one is going to work out of the box because my microSD card is configured for Raspberry Pi 3 B+.
  • ...
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also Amlogic still uses the proprietary open source uboot, a port to uboot mailine is ongoing, however if want to boot from SD it is not so important. But you can recompile it from source if you want.
You need a fast disk for genoo more than anything else so a usb3 or pcie/m2 or sata or gbit for iscsi is a must. Less than 2 Gbit is painful

Rockpi 4 maybe?
As I already say you can get a TV box with 4 cores 1.6Ghz Amlogic CPU, box, 32G emmc, 4G Ram, gbit and usb3 fully supported by mainline for 40$ on Amazon. Just beware of scams that are frequent on ebay/amazon.
Chech freaktab or armbian forums for recommended boxes.
I still use mine, I turned it into an elasticsearch server box, it is great for that.
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Last edited by erm67 on Tue Dec 24, 2019 7:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All I need it for is wake on lan, VPN, remote SSH commands, and cron jobs. Rock Pi 4 seems to be an overkill for this.

Mainline u-boot could build itself for libre computer aml-s805x-ac. I don't understand how exactly u-boot works. It seems to reside in both SPI NOR flash and microSD card.

Why do you keep recommending Rock Pi 4 instead of Odroid N2 which you already have? Do you want to switch to Rock Pi 4?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crocket wrote:
All I need it for is wake on lan, VPN, remote SSH commands, and cron jobs. Mainline u-boot could build itself for libre computer aml-s805x-ac.

I don't understand how exactly u-boot works. It seems to reside in both SPI NOR flash and microSD card.

Why do you keep recommending Rock Pi 4 instead of Odroid N2 which you already have? Do you want to switch to Rock Pi 4?

The rockpi costs less than the N2

Most boxes support wake on lan.

Exactly, having uboot mainline is great to use the advanced features like network console, my nas has uboot mainline with network console and I have a uboot remote console on ip address 10.0.0.5 (the default), basically I don't need to connect a serial to talk with uboot but I can do that over the network. that is absolutely great. the client is just a regular netcat netbsd
Beside that mainline uboot has advanced network boot capabilities, pxe, nfs, recently also ipxe has been ported to arm64 so using uboot+ipxe it should be possible to boot from iscsi before initramfs (which solves a lot of problems :-)) I have not tested that.

https://www.xypron.de/projects/u-boot/iscsi.html

BTW I emerged for more than 2 years on the 32Gb EMMC inside the tvbox and it still works, I only used swap over network. It's very fast 100MB/s and enough for a headless server. an inexpensive usb3 adapter that works with linux is even better.
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Last edited by erm67 on Tue Dec 24, 2019 7:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, how do I install gentoo manually on something like Rock Pi 4 without copying files from other linux distributions?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crocket wrote:
So, how do I install gentoo manually on something like Rock Pi 4 without copying files from other linux distributions?


chroot is the best way, chroot on a device is even better since you can also switch-root to the device, switch-root to a subdir no longer works ... it never worked very well but was useful for testing.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can take care of mainline kernel and stage 3 tarball. But, I don't know how to deal with u-boot and everything else related to booting.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crocket wrote:
I can take care of mainline kernel and stage 3 tarball. But, I don't know how to deal with u-boot and everything else related to booting.

It is not too difficult to manage but having a serial (or netconsole) is important. the biggest problem with proprietary bootloaders is that they have limited boot capabilities but an initramfs can solve all problems ... if can't network boot from the bootloader you can still do it from the initramfs.

BTW I am trying to convince the genkernel maintainer to make it configure arm64 kernels using the defconfig provided from upstream so that it should work with all sopported platforms out of the box :-)
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How did you efficiently figure out how to handle u-boot and boot process?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the network console in uboot is absolutely great, like having the bios in a terminal and bering able to browse the u-boot documentation at the same time ....
ok also with the serial but the board needs to be physically close and connected with a cable.

Now once you have the board, and you are able to interact with u-boot you can just use it and read the fine manual ... it is not sooo complicated after all; the dark magic, like the addresses where to load the kernel and the initrd are usually provided by the vendor or can be found in some forum. hexadecimal math can be done with a calculator.
Do you have some universitary Information Technology background or are just a hobbist?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am just a hobbyist. Explaining the benefits of u-boot is not very useful to me when I don't know how to install or configure u-boot. But, I will remember to configure netconsole on u-boot and linux.
It seems libre computer AML-S805X-AC (La Frite) and Odroid N2 come with u-boot. I may need a bit more manual work to install u-boot on Rock Pi 4.

For now, I want to use Rock Pi S and cross distcc in qemu-aarch64 chroot because
  • I want a minimal single board computer anyway for wake on lan, VPN, remote SSH commands, and cron jobs.
  • I'm running low on money. I will buy an ARM build machine later. I'm considering helios64 as the build machine and the ECC NAS.
  • I figured out how to handle qemu-aarch64 chroot and just need to fix cross distcc for big packages like gcc. If I fixed cross distcc, emerge would build faster.
    • I will also install quieter fans and quieter power supply in my computer case because I need my computer case to be quiet anyway for music listening and want to sleep with my computer compiling ARM64 packages.
    • If I upgraded a single board computer every 3 months, I wouldn't need to keep my computer running over night often.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Low on money means freaktab - armbian forums and a TVBox+ssd that can emerge natively.

There is even a subforum for that, browse it maybe:
https://forum.armbian.com/forum/24-tv-boxes/

Consider that with all the ¢ that you are going to save in the elecricity bill in a few hundreds years the box will repay itself.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know what you mean by freaktab.
But, if your recommendation is a single board computer with an SSD and 4GB RAM,
buying Rock Pi 4A with 4GB RAM, ACER M.2 NVMe SSD 128GB, Rock Pi 4 Heatsink, Rock Pi 4 M.2 Extension board, and the power supply costs 132.63 USD including shipping on shop.allnetchina.cn
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A famous forum for tvbox freaks :-)

https://forum.freaktab.com/

A tv box including the case, 4 GB ram, 64GB EMMC, 1 usb 3 and 2 usb2 ports, gigabit eth, 4CPU@1.5Ghz, maybe spdif out costs probably the half and you don't need anything else, they start at 40$. Of course it is not supported and is slower.

There are even some allwinner H3 boxes with 4GB ram and USB3 for 20$, I was stupid enough to get one without checking the forums, it is unusable since it overheats and goes in thermal check already decompressing the kernel

PS I forgot to say that Amlogic open source but proprietary uboot doesn't have a tcp/ip stack at all so no net console and you will need an initramfs for network.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
Of course it is not supported and is slower.

erm67 wrote:
I was stupid enough to get one without checking the forums, it is unusable since it overheats and goes in thermal check already decompressing the kernel

I'd rather buy supported products that are built as low-power servers. I'd choose Rock Pi 4, Rock Pi S, Libre Computer AML-S805X-AC (La Frite), Raspberry Pi 3 A+, or something similar.
As I wrote above, I want a minimal single board computer anyway, and I can buy an ARM build machine later when I have more money.
erm67 wrote:
Amlogic open source but proprietary uboot doesn't have a tcp/ip stack at all

As far as I know, mainline u-boot supports Odroid N2 and Rock Pi 4. Mainline u-boot has configs for Odroid N2 and Rock Pi 4. But, I don't know how to install mainline u-boot on those devices.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crocket wrote:
erm67 wrote:
Of course it is not supported and is slower.

erm67 wrote:
I was stupid enough to get one without checking the forums, it is unusable since it overheats and goes in thermal check already decompressing the kernel

I'd rather buy supported products that are built as low-power servers. I'd choose Rock Pi 4, Rock Pi S, Libre Computer AML-S805X-AC (La Frite), Raspberry Pi 3 A+, or something similar.
As I wrote above, I want a minimal single board computer anyway, and I can buy an ARM build machine later when I have more money.
erm67 wrote:
Amlogic open source but proprietary uboot doesn't have a tcp/ip stack at all

As far as I know, mainline u-boot supports Odroid N2 and Rock Pi 4. Mainline u-boot has configs for Odroid N2 and Rock Pi 4. But, I don't know how to install mainline u-boot on those devices.


Sorry no uboot mainline for the N2 yet, Neil is porting it but currently only the classic S905 works

It's just to learn not to be really used as a home server (even if plex would work fine):
https://blog.nobugware.com/post/2019/h96-max-android-box-as-a-linux-server/

A box like that cost 32€ now
https://www.geekbuying.com/item/H96-MAX-RK3318-Android-9-0-4GB-32GB-4K-TV-Box-416382.html
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
t's just to learn not to be really used as a home server (even if plex would work fine):
https://blog.nobugware.com/post/2019/h96-max-android-box-as-a-linux-server/

erm67 wrote:
A box like that cost 32€ now
https://www.geekbuying.com/item/H96-MAX-RK3318-Android-9-0-4GB-32GB-4K-TV-Box-416382.html

  • The manufacturer hasn't provided the dts file for H96 Max. H96 Max+ Android box as a Linux server and Armbian for TV box rk3328 report unstable USB ports when using rk3328-t9.dts. To use it as an ARM build machine, I will want to connect an SSD or an HDD to a USB3 port.
  • I don't know whether the heat sink is large enough to dissipate heat during hours-long compilation. If I don't use it for compilation, I don't need 4GB RAM.
  • Rock Pi 4 is more expensive for good reasons.
  • Although I am tempted by a good hardware at an affordable price, I value ease of configuration and maintenance more than hardware capacity or saving a little bit of electricity because my time is scarcer than electricity or RAM capacity.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it wasn't like that they would not sell it for 32€ ....... they are chinese not stupids. Very cheap boxes have serious flaws, everybody knows, some flaws can be fixed with firmware or software updates other cannot.

Apparently I fixed some of my 20€ Allwinner H3 problems with a larger heat sink :-)

Maybe it will never be useful but for 20€ it is a lot of fun (for me at least) ... if it doesn't work I'll throw it away, after all some people spend more for a few packs of cigarettes that hurt their health a last a lot less. The serial work and I found kernel and uboot surces upstream (sunxi) so I can do something. It has 2G ram (4 elpida J2104ECSE) and 8GB emmc 5.0 (Samsung), ram and emmc chipsets costs more than 20€. Obviously if they sell it at that ridiculous price it is because the box is seriously flawed.


BTW what do you want to do with the proprietary dts? It will work only with the proprietary drivers you don't need it for mainline. And you can always decompile it to fix something.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want something that works without much hassle. I stopped playing games with my computers. I am trying to minimize my lifestyle because I want to be the best at what I do.
erm67 wrote:
what do you want to do with the proprietary dts? It will work only with the proprietary drivers you don't need it for mainline. And you can always decompile it to fix something.

Dts is usually something the manufacturer provides. If it has to be written by communities, I don't think it is supported by the manufacturer.
Manufacturer support is important.

Right now, I'm considering
  • NanoPi NEO2 Black with a metal heatsink case // ~25 USD
    • It has 1GB RAM and a gigabit ethernet port. It is better than Raspberry Pi 3 B+ for VPN.
    • I can reuse my 5V 3A microUSB power supply.
    • Its AllWinner H5 SoC is supported by mainline linux and mainline u-boot.
  • ZeroPi with its metal heatsink case // ~16 USD
    • It has 512GB RAM and a gigabit ethernet port.
    • I can reuse my 5V 3A microUSB power supply with this.
    • Its AllWinner H3 SoC is supported by mainline linux and mainline u-boot.
  • Rock Pi S 512GB model // ~12 USD
    • It has 512RAM and a 100Mbps ethernet port.
    • It consumes less power than H3 and H5 and does not need a heatsink for CPU. A 5V 1A power supply with a usb-c cable is sufficient.
      I already have a 5V 2A power supply, so I only need to buy a usb A to usb C charger cable.
    • RK3308 is not yet supported by mainline linux or mainline u-boot, but it will be in a few years.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look the current generation of sunxi CPU (H2-H3-H4-H5-H6) is hopeless :-) The H3 I am playing with really overheats too easily, maybe with water cooling works ... I read on the forums that boards based on the H5 & H6 might even be damaged by overheating since also the safety sensors suck.
The sunxi tools however are great, since the board is going into the dust bin anyway I can play a bit with it :-) Also the documentation is great.
There is even a tool (sunxi-fel) that can upload an uboot image over usb in memory and boot it ... am always scared by uboot updates since I bricked a board once doing that, and I could not unbrick it since the USB burning tool refused to burn the firmware that I got from the manufacturer because the board revision was different, when I complained they said that it was the only version available and I should have used JTAG burner instead ......... an expensive tool that I don't have.
Now, if the manufacturer of the board is a big name, like ASUS, RaspberryPI they might give you support, otherwise it is a lot wiser backup and reuse the drivers and dtb that comes from a working board.

I still don't understand what do you want to do with the dts of the proprietary kernel ..... it is useless with mainline.

This board is basically a nanopi+ with an emmc and lots of memory :-) The manufacturer doesnt' matter since the overheating flaw is in the SoC, read a bit around before buying a H3/H5 or all winner. Hopefully the next generation will be better since their documentation is excellent. If don't plan to use it for anything else than learning and throw in the dust bin the nanopi for 16$ is perfect, otherwise avoid it.
Don't expect any support from board manufacturers like orangepi, unless you speak chinese, you will find everything from sunxi (the manufacturer of the SoC).
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is a metal heatsink case not enough to cool down nanopi series? Look at the gallery of ZeroPi and NanoPi NEO2 Black. Check NEO/NEO2 Metal Case w/ heat sink.

I shifted my attention to
  • Rock Pi S
    • This seems ok if I don't mind 512GB RAM and a 100Mbps ethernet port because it does not need a heatsink for CPU.
    • Although it is a new board, I expect support for mainline linux and mainline u-boot in the future because Rock Pi 4 has support for both.
  • Rock Pi 4
  • Raspberry Pi 3
  • Raspberry Pi 4
  • Libre Computer La Frite
  • Some other boards known to work without problems.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have a look at the armbian docs:

https://docs.armbian.com/Hardware_Allwinner-H3/
A lot of people attempted but they ultimately failed.
They say that FriendlyARM attempted to fix the problem with hundreds of kernel patches (for the proprietary kernel) reducing the current (1.2v) to the cpu and the frequencies to <1Ghz but still under heavy load might overheat .... using a good heatsink is of course a great idea, but it is very likely that there is something fundamentally wrong with their current design :-) Older Allwinner CPU were better.

I wanted to use it as a minisatip ip server with a bunch of DVB-T/S cards, since the H3 has 3 USB2 controllers (not a hub), but I think I will wait for something better.

I was really impressed by the tools and docs however, but that is probably because there is a large community behind ... after all it was the AlWinner A10 and the melee tv box that started all this ARM processor home server craze. Too bad that sunxi failed bad.

In my experience the best ARM SoC are from Marvell but they are expensive and specialized, than Amlogic followed by Rockchip, I will avoid sunxi until they fix their problems :-) There are other makers that I never try.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For now, I decided to order quiter computer case fans, a quieter computer power supply, and Rock Pi S because
  • I figured out how to compile u-boot and linux for Rock Pi S. I just need to learn to install and configure u-boot.
  • I can try to fix cross distcc and reduce the amount of compilation time.
  • I found an affordable quiet power supply for my computer.
  • I can stop an upgrade before I go to bed and resume it after I wake up.
  • A proper build machine like Rock Pi 4 is an overkill for home VPN and SSH which Rock Pi S is suitable for.
  • I will probably buy a proper ARM NAS which will also serve as an ARM build machine. I want to take time to think about how to utilize an ARM build machine efficiently.


Last edited by crocket on Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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