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Gavinmc42
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:04 pm    Post subject: Pi4 Emerges Reply with quote

Now that I got my 4GB Pi4 today I can get serious about building stuff..

Being new to the Gentoo forum is there a place to put a list of apps that built for aarch64 Gentoo64 on Pi's?
Lots of stuff no one knows if they will build yet.

Sakaki has been holding my hand on the Pi forums while I learn, but now it is time to pay back to Gentoo.

So here is a I list of things that I emerged so far.

Arduino IDE
Code::Blocks
Geany

DOSbox
Trigger
Warzone2100

Art of Illusion
OpenSCADWhat does Stable AArch64 mean now

Bino (has a bug I think)

Some stuff compiles from source using make etc
OpenOCD, FlashROM.
Is there a need to convert them to ebuilds and how do I do it?

There is some stuff I got working on Raspbian Buster.
FlightGear, Openscenegraph, lots of GIS and mapping software I want to get going on Gentoo64

As a Gentoo noobie what do I need to learn?
What does "Stable" Aarch64, mean now?
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gavinmc42,

Welcome to Gentoo.

64 bit on Raspberry Pi has come a long way since the launch of the 3B.
Then, if you could get a serial console in 64 bit mode you were doing well.

arm and arm64 are a long way from mainstream. To learn the ins and outs of Gentoo you need to learn on an amd64 install.
A Gentoo guest in Virtualbox on Windows is fine. If something is broken there, it will get a lot more attention than being broken only on arm64.

Stable and Testing are two of the branches of the ::gentoo repo. Stable, denoted by arch (arm64) means well tested and at the time of being marked stable, no open bugs.
Testing denoted by ~arch (~arm64) means that the package built with some combination of of use flags for someone sometime. Its not well tested.
Then there is unkeyworded. That means nobody knows if it works or not, or if they know, they are not telling.

For completness, there is the haemorrhaging edge, in the shape of live ebuilds. They build from the upstream repo as it is at the time you hit it. They are never keyworded.

That's a quick overview.

Write ebuilds and contribute them if you have the skills.
Contribute keywords via the Proxy Maintainers
Bugzilla is a useful resource too.
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erm67
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Pi4 Emerges Reply with quote

Gavinmc42 wrote:

What does "Stable" Aarch64, mean now?


The term aarch64 is recent, at the beginning everybody used arm64; since the keywork arm64 was defined in gentoo a lot of time ago, before it was actually usable, it stuck, so here in gentoo land is arm64 and not aarch64. This reflects also it's status :-) mostly outdated like the keyword used to identify it, but it's improving.
Since the raspberry doesn't even implement the full ARM architecture it isn't 'really' an arm board ;-)
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Gavinmc42
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys, Arm64 is a bit quicker to type than aarch64

Quote:
there is the haemorrhaging edge

I have bandaids.
At home I'm forcing myself to use Pi4 Gentoo64 as my x84 Celeron Duo box died the week my first Pi4 arrived.
Fix PC or get another Pi4? One is a boat anchor the other the hurts the brain learning.

Neddy, I have been lurking for some time, some saga getting Rust/Firefox working.
Well done.

Once Browsers work well enough then Pi's are PC's.
The 2 and 4GB Pi4's have enough memory to actually do serious stuff, if a bit slowly :)
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gavinmc42,

I have KDE on my Pi3B. You have to turn off Baloo or it will try to index everything before it starts.
It should be much better on a Pi4 with more RAM and more IO bandwidth.
Its installed there but I haven't had any test time.

arm64 is still rough round the edges, its not really a suitable platform for a Gentoo beginner.
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Gavinmc42
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
arm64 is still rough round the edges, its not really a suitable platform for a Gentoo beginner.

Sakaki has smoothed most of the rough edges off.

Yep, I'm a Gentoo beginner and lots of reading webpages, books and wiki's still to do.
But Sakaki's Gentoo64 with Wiki is the best 64bit OS for Pi's currently.
The Pi4 makes it usable for desktop use for the home hacker.

Learning another OS fast enough to do stuff is another issue.
Learn the OS or use the OS to learn other stuff.
What percentage is spent on the OS compared to making stuff with it?

AI/NN/ML is all bleeding edge stuff anyway, some of that might need assembly code tweaking.
Asm64 assembler is less painful and more efficient than Arm32.
That's why I want a 64bit OS.

Gentoo64 works so I use it.
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gavinmc42,

Yep, Sakaki has made 64 bit Gentoo on the Pi very easy to use.

There are two aspects to any operating system.
Maintaining it and using it. Even Windows needs to be maintained but it tries to hide it from you.

Windows and other binary operating systems, including Sakakis 64 bit gentoo are easy to maintain until you want to do something that they don't do for you.
With Windows, hard luck, you go without or pay lots of money.
On Gentoo, you build it yourself. If you are lucky, you can find an ebuild, if not, the ./configure, make, install steps are worth trying.

Gentoo is a set of tools you use to design your own distro. Its Portage, the package manager and the ::gentoo ebuild repositqry.
Everything else is upstream.

When you run a binary Gentoo derivative, its their OS design. Sakakis 64 bit Gentoo on the Pi is just that. Sakakis design of an operating system.
Once you find you want to change things, life gets harder.
Portage will take care of adding things with emerge.

When you get to changing build options, it gets harder. Things you have installed need to be rebuilt with new options.
Giver that arm64 is not mainstream, you might want to install things not yet tested an arm64.
You can do all of those things. Gentoo lets you. The further away from the binary offering you go, the more you are designing your own operating system.

The more you are designing your own operating system, the more CPU cycles you need to maintain it.

You may find this BINHOST useful. Only the gcc-9.x branch is maintained.

None of the above is knocking binary or derived distros. There is a whole spectrum of distro design possibilities.
Gentoo, DIY is at one extreme, a pure binary distro at the other.
Everyone needs to find a place where they are happy.
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Gavinmc42
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm finding if something does not work there is usually another free open source program that does.
With Pi4's many more choices exist, some don't have Arm64 ebuilds yet, no big deal.
Depending on dependacies more than 50% just make.
The trick is to find one that is simple to use without needing to read manuals or watch videos/tutorials.

When tools, apps and OS's get in the way of making I look elsewhere.
Today Raspbian Buster is testing mesa 19.2.0-rc1, finally caught up to Sakaki's Gentoo64 :lol:

Overnight I can add Kicad to my list of working emerges.
And now I find you have done it already and it's on your repo :o
Would most of these be A53 builds?

I now understand how Gentoo's quickly become personal OS's.
It's like taking control back 8)
The last time I had that was DOS3.3 days.
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