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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:12 pm    Post subject: Microsoft swallows Github Reply with quote

Microsoft has acquired Github

Time to get off git?
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heck, no. Git is platform and service provider agnostic. But, personally, I use GitLab.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Microsoft swallows Github Reply with quote

Tony0945 wrote:
Microsoft has acquired Github

Time to get off git?


There's also a thread here: https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1082050.html
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Microsoft swallows Github Reply with quote

Tony0945 wrote:
Microsoft has acquired Github

Time to get off git?
That's like not using C, because systemdbust is written in C.

I was going to say: like not using shell, just because some numpty can't code it.. but then all those "Linux distros" made exactly that mistake. teh sigh ;)

Definitely time to get off github, though.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder how will GitHub EULA change...
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zucca wrote:
I wonder how will GitHub EULA change...

Zucca ... by signing up to github you agree to the following: we will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own ... your culture will adapt to service us ... resistance is futile. [ACCEPT]

best ... khay
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today or tomorrow my projects will move to GitLab.
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to all for the Gitlab advice. I so advised my daughter who was crestfallen at the news.

My concern was that Microsoft will warp git to the point that it will only work with Windows. I suppose we will have to call the Linus Torvalds version "git legacy".
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony0945 wrote:
Thanks to all for the Gitlab advice. I so advised my daughter who was crestfallen at the news.

My concern was that Microsoft will warp git to the point that it will only work with Windows. I suppose we will have to call the Linus Torvalds version "git legacy".
Erm... why would Microsoft then be the by far most active Company on GitHub with millions of lines of open source code (*)? Why would they invent and produce a platform like Azure that can be used with any language and operating system?

I know, it is still Microsoft after all. But GitHub wanted to sell and Microsoft is definitely better than Oracle. And, after all, things changed massively since Steve Balmer left.
And no matter how skeptical I am, the world will continue spinning.

(*): Just take a glance at github.com/Microsoft: 1,837 Repositories and 3,846 people ... How many has your employer? And those are only the Microsoft repositories. They have more on other accounts as well. (like 820 repositories just for Azure.)
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder how long before github is no longer compatible with git? Look at what happened with Skype and pretty much every other company they acquired. It's inevitable.

I think I'll just self-host. I'll lose some neat functionality supplied by github, but I won't get any surprises when it's too late to do anything about it.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My company hosts a private instance of GitLab. I'm also working on doing that at home. I'll probably do a HOWTO for the Wiki when I'm done.

In any case, no need to do without the "neat functionality".

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John R. Graham wrote:
My company hosts a private instance of GitLab. I'm also working on doing that at home. I'll probably do a HOWTO for the Wiki when I'm done.

In any case, no need to do without the "neat functionality".

- John


I will likely be reading that HOWTO John.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1clue wrote:
I wonder how long before github is no longer compatible with git?
I have to work with Team Foundation Server at work. (Now "Visual Studio Online")
After Microsoft added git functionality to TFS, they (almost) stopped working on their own VCS and extended git integration until they themselves used git only.

So whatever happens, GitHub will always stay being GitHub, everything else just makes no sense and is paranoid bullshit.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yamakuzure wrote:
1clue wrote:
I wonder how long before github is no longer compatible with git?
I have to work with Team Foundation Server at work. (Now "Visual Studio Online")
After Microsoft added git functionality to TFS, they (almost) stopped working on their own VCS and extended git integration until they themselves used git only.

So whatever happens, GitHub will always stay being GitHub, everything else just makes no sense and is paranoid bullshit.


Say what you like. I've been watching Microsoft take over smaller companies since the 80s. I can't recall a single product that actually got better after Microsoft bought it. They get tons of features added to them, to the point that it's difficult to get anything done, and then everybody migrates to something cleaner. Or, alternatively, the product is supported for a couple years with a few feature changes that reduce stability and then it's put on the shelf, forcing users to move to a competing product. An example of the latter was Foxpro database engine, which worked very well when it was separate and then almost immediately after Microsoft bought it it turned to crap.

Edit: Or, if you want a more recent example, look at skype.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yamakuzure wrote:
Tony0945 wrote:
Thanks to all for the Gitlab advice. I so advised my daughter who was crestfallen at the news.

My concern was that Microsoft will warp git to the point that it will only work with Windows. I suppose we will have to call the Linus Torvalds version "git legacy".
Erm... why would Microsoft then be the by far most active Company on GitHub with millions of lines of open source code (*)? Why would they invent and produce a platform like Azure that can be used with any language and operating system?

I know, it is still Microsoft after all. But GitHub wanted to sell and Microsoft is definitely better than Oracle. And, after all, things changed massively since Steve Balmer left.
And no matter how skeptical I am, the world will continue spinning.

(*): Just take a glance at github.com/Microsoft: 1,837 Repositories and 3,846 people ... How many has your employer? And those are only the Microsoft repositories. They have more on other accounts as well. (like 820 repositories just for Azure.)


an expensive way of winning you over
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1clue wrote:
An example of the latter was Foxpro database engine, which worked very well when it was separate and then almost immediately after Microsoft bought it it turned to crap.

MsMoney. They bought it and re-issued it as MsMoney 99 with no changes other than name and links. Then they issued MsMoney 2000 with more features but less budgeting capability. Then they followed the path you outlined, eventually dropping the product and telling everyone to go to Intuit who switched to the rental model. Ugh! I'm still running MsMoney 2000. It's the main reason I still have XP. I can see how to write a Linux version with wxGTK and wxsqlite, but there is an AWFUL load of code to write. There is lots of functionality. OTOH if the data is in an sqlite dtabase the reporting becomes much better.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1clue wrote:
An example of the latter was Foxpro database engine, which worked very well when it was separate and then almost immediately after Microsoft bought it it turned to crap.
Tony0945 wrote:
MsMoney. They bought it and re-issued it as MsMoney 99 with no changes other than name and links. Then they issued MsMoney 2000 with more features but less budgeting capability. Then they followed the path you outlined, eventually dropping the product and telling everyone to go to Intuit who switched to the rental model. Ugh! I'm still running MsMoney 2000.
Visio; just before they bought it, the latest version had been written, which they put out as Visio2000, and thereafter it went to crap. All the useful parts were "moved" to other products, ie they deliberately crippled the software and directed people to other, much worse, offerings, that did not fulfil the brief.

But it's okay, because we got a "free" t-shirt while we wasted a year. Yay.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not really valid comparisons there. All they have is 'soft lock-in' due to all the people already being on the platform. Which has been proprietary before being swallowed by MS. git being git, repos are pushed to a different server faster than they spell out 'Change of terms of service'.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John R. Graham wrote:
My company hosts a private instance of GitLab. I'm also working on doing that at home.

Gitlab is damn resource hungry. There are at least a few alternatives that let you self-host on a fraction of hardware gitlab takes just for housekeeping, before it gets itself to being useful*.

For personal projects a separate shell account may be enough, perhaps with a hook for creating snapshots and exposing them to a web server. For small organizations perhaps something like gitolite or gitosis


*not necessarily a bad software, it is quite powerful actually. It does come at a cost though.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1clue wrote:
and then almost immediately after Microsoft bought it it turned to crap.
Like the Nokia deal... Whindows Phone? What phone? :P
Also IIRC they also did some kind of deal with LG before Nokia and it was almost fatal to LG mobile business.

EDIT: Whindows phone -typo. I'll let it pass. Sounds fitting in a way.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony0945 wrote:
My concern was that Microsoft will warp git to the point that it will only work with Windows. I suppose we will have to call the Linus Torvalds version "git legacy".
That's not really possible here, even if Microsoft started actively trying to break things. Git is maintained by people who have no obligation to Github. At worst, Microsoft could make it difficult to use Github from a non-Windows platform.

As far as I know, the only part of most Github projects that is at all difficult to export is the issue tracker data. That is still exportable, although the documentation I found readily suggests you need to export issues one at a time.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO one of the best features of git is that you don't need a central "official" repository.

Microsoft destroying github's usefulness (that's what we're really talking about here) may put a kink in the procedure of many companies who use github as a central repository for their own organizational uses, but I think that's just a bit of inconvenience. I have my own git server on an internal ip address for those projects I would rather not share, and it's incredibly easy to set up.

The real issue here is all the external tools that are tied to the github site that are amazingly convenient. I don't know how many of these are open source but I'm sure not all are. Things I can think of off the top of my head:

  1. Github flavored markdown documentation. Markdown files in your repository get converted into documentation with clickable links. Insanely handy.
  2. Web site hosting.
  3. Integration with waffle.io, circleci and other workflow tools
  4. Web-based branch comparison and merging.


That's a very short sample of a pretty long list.

If I were able to simply download a github clone from docker or some other virtualization platform I'd be happy. Or if it were as simple as emerging the packages and setting them up to start, that would be cool too.

As an afterthought another issue that comes to mind is security and privacy. Microsoft has pretty much stated that they let government thugs snoop around without warrants. That's not cool, and in my opinion makes me more likely to self-host than any of the other reasons discussed so far.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hu wrote:
Tony0945 wrote:
My concern was that Microsoft will warp git to the point that it will only work with Windows. I suppose we will have to call the Linus Torvalds version "git legacy".
That's not really possible here, even if Microsoft started actively trying to break things. Git is maintained by people who have no obligation to Github. At worst, Microsoft could make it difficult to use Github from a non-Windows platform.
I was thinking of it more like their extension of mail. In general, I just think Satya is trying to find ways to keep people looking to MS for "answers/solutions."
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i only started using linux in like 2009, spent a year hopping around before landing here, the first computer i ever had access to was a TANDY by dad brought home in the 90s, and then some kinda windows desktop in 95 or 97 maybe, the only internet it had was a weird encyclopedia thing you could use to look things up, i remember a friend in middleschool giving me a set of redhad installation cd's which i failed misreably probably because of the lack of available documentation and the internet was in its infancy still, from that time till now i've always had a windows harddrive onstandby /use, people hated hardcore on vista but i personally liked it, dont get me wrong 7 was (debatibly)way better, but vista wasnt THAT bad, or atleast i didnt have the issues so many others had, never went to windows 8 or 8.1 i personally hated the idea of them trying to push a universal OS across all devices(which is what that UI was about) plus i was in no way in agreement with paying for it. i used linux exclusively the entire time from when 8 release and they dropped support for 7, till the time 10 dropped. when 10 came out i installed it(there's a trick or exploit you can still do to get a legit copy of windows 10 for free because the accessibility for visually impaired people who cant read missed the free upgrade) because a loved one wanted to play a game that you cannot get working in wine/playonlinux/anything and it's because the game devs implemented a antihack/cheat serviced called XGIN which prevents you from running the game in windows layers, it flags it as 3rd party services and will refuse to let you connect, and i've heard of others being BANNED by getting different games to run that use similar antihack services.

10 wasn't that bad, infact i liked it... and then i heard about them releasing WSL to dev builds(windows sublayer linux), so i thought holy shit i can use gnu/linux while in windows NATIVELY now? GG. i used it for a long time, infact i still have my windows 10 hd sitting infront of me(highly considering overwriting), to be clear i disabled many things related to MSPHONEHOME/autoupdates in my registery, all was smooth for quite some time, and then they pushed an update (somehow) that forced every single pc to install regardless of your registry tweaks/anything you did to prevent such things from happening, this killed manythings aside from the moral aspects of it, like my i/o read write speeds dropped drastically, cpu freq jumped up just for trivial dumb shit tasks like a poor version of ondemand or something, the time from you clicking something to it actually opening went down by literally 5-10 seconds especially in the cases of web browsers(like they wanted all windows 10 pcs to be using microsoft edge or something but i cannot confirm because i have had edge disabled for 10's entire lifetime)

so to me, i've seen many cases of MS actually killing their OWN SOFTWARE AND OS's people are using at the time, not even talking about standalone applications they aquire, msdos, 3.1, xp, 2000, millinum(people forget about this one, suprisingly it was one of the better) vista, 7, 8, and NOW probably 10, i wouldnt be surprised at all if they are doing this just to prepare for the next release even though i think for some reason i remember them said there wont be any OS's released after 10, but i mean i wouldn't be the first time they said they weren't and then boom new 100$ OS you are forced to upgrade to if you want continued support/just getting your overall usability back.

i dropped using my windows 10 hd maybe a month ago, it just became too much of a HUGE inconvenience and i/you dont need to deal with their bullshit, they honestly almost had me won over with wsl for a while, in the back of my mind it felt very much like taboo, like why are they catering to this world now, this feels too much like an intrusion, what are they trying to do, what is their game plan(trying to win gnu/linux users over for the goal of ONE universal os across all platforms/nations IMO).

and now they bought github? i was distrought when i heard the news, and pretty angry even though i dont even have a repo on github, i was angry for the millions of independent open source devs, microsoft has now consumed you and your work and you are now encompassed in their realm now regardless if you have 0 MS software on your daily driver, Who knows what their endgame plan is, to me it's seeming more and more like "WELL YOU DONT WANT TO USE MS PRODUCTS? GUESS WHAT NOW IT DOESNT MATTER" and truthfully it doesnt matter what os you use if you put your source on github you AND YOUR USERS are now part of the many microsoft spider legs that are megalithic ever reaching.

the shit that happened in 2014 with "LINUX IS CANCER" is imo still the agenda, you dont know what happened to him, you think he quit? to me and my conspiratorial mind it is entirely possible that it was forced, and now they got some "WE LOVE LINUX AND OPENSOURCEYAYYY" guess what, when something sounds too good to be true, that's because it is, i dont buy it one bit it's just their public image and is only skin deep, they are making you think all is loveydovey because afterall just look at their opensource contributions(for a company as giant as MS the fact that they have so much opensource doesnt come as a surprise because they could just make an opensource branch and then guess what now they are one of the biggest contributors of it SOLELY just because of how many devs they have working for them i am not hating on the individual dev that microsoft owns, they dont have to know the truth to be a part of it, they can live in ignorance and it pays the bills gracefully, but i am forsure hating on your god who owns you).

my advice is this, DO NOT LET THEM WIN YOU OVER WITH ALL THE FANCY TRICKS AND FLARES

maybe i'm wrong, but i'm not going to reserve my judgement now after what will soon be 30 years of microsoft experience, it was F microsoft then, and it is STILL F microsoft now. They aren't getting a pass from me, dont be fooled. :evil:

if you happen to read this, thank you for taking the time permitting me to vent my feelz on the subject, and i implore you to make up your own mind on the issue, but i will say this... remember, YOU WIN WARS WITH INFILTRATION and wsl felt like the first step NOW THEY FUCKING OWN GITHUB, i dont blame github... it was 7.5 billion dollars afterall. maybe they will separate and make a new opensource platform all whilst being billions richer. ( if you think the fact that the stuff will still remain open source makes it any better it doesnt, for an example perspective of this think of germany in the 1930s and nazi's owning something you love, i.e... "NAZI'S OWN GITHUB BUT HEY THE STUFF HOSTED ON IT IS STILL OPEN SOURCE SOOOOOO, MEH I'LL OVERLOOK THE DEVIL IN THE DETAILS FOR NOW UNTIL THEY DO SOMETHING REALLY HORRIBLE((AGAIN))")

maybe they found the light, maybe they really are converting, maybe they aren't trying to rule the digital world you live in anymore, maybe they'eve excepted coexistence instead of 100% MS rule (or 70 40 depending on how you wanna factor in ms + osx), but i highly doubt it plus i'm usually just an overly nice person.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can compare apples and oranges as much as you like. It doesn't change the simple facts:
  • GitHub is not git. There is no way MS can compromise git.
  • Microsoft did a lot of bad take-overs in their history. Hell, the first MS-DOS was one, too!
    But name one, just one, that went bad after Steve Balmer left. And don't google it. From the top of your head.
    All you people can name are the ones I remember, too. And Skype, the most recent, was 7 years ago.
  • Microsoft gets access to millions of developers and projects with this acquisition.
    That is their main gain!
    With this they can advertise their own (non-free) services (such as Azure) to such a wide audience, that the acquisition of GitHub will pay off very soon, even if only 1% of the developers on GitHub book any non-free Microsoft service.
  • For this to work they have to be very careful about what they do. They know that any repo can move away in no time.
  • The more projects they scare away, the smaller their revenue will be. It is as simple as that.
  • Hell, they are themselves so deep into git services, they sound like they never had any VCS on their own!
Don't get me wrong, please. I am no fan of Microsoft, and not happy about their acquisition of GitHub!

All I say is, that all the panicking you read everywhere, is exaggerative. (I find some of it quite preposterous, to be honest...)
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