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pjp
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Seriously? Reply with quote

flysideways wrote:
Re: Seriously?
Merged.
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flysideways
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:09 am    Post subject: Re: Seriously? Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
flysideways wrote:
Re: Seriously?
Merged.


You accept the Beeb’s headline?

This seriously predates any Trumptardery.


Last edited by flysideways on Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, we are bombing Syria. This is a slap in the face of everything logical.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:53 am    Post subject: Re: Seriously? Reply with quote

flysideways wrote:
pjp wrote:
flysideways wrote:
Re: Seriously?
Merged.


You accept the Beeb’s headline?
I honestly don't care. Did he do it or not? If he did, then the discussion is about Trump. If he didn't and the BBC is lying, then the discussion ends up being about Trump. Those capable of having a reasonable discussion can do it here. Those who would turn it into a Trump thread might as well do it here. Am I wrong?
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmitchell wrote:
Libby is no one's patsy, and his trial was a travesty. Fitzpatrick knew as early as 2003 that Richard Armitage, not Lewis Libby, was responsible for the leak, and that Valerie Plame's status was such that the leak did not even constitute a crime. The investigation should have ended then and there.

Yet Fitzgerald inexplicably pressed on, and Libby inexplicably perjured himself on when and where he learned of Plame's status. This is important: Libby didn't lie about the rationale for war, or about Joe Wilson, or about Valerie Plame. He told the truth about all of these, but lied about how he knew the truth. I can't imagine why he did so, but he did, and perhaps some punishment is in order.

But Libby never should have been indicted. The investigation should have ended years ago when it was determined that no crime had been committed. I consider this yet another example of overreaching by a special prosecutor and general abuse of power.


I should have put it here.

To finish,

richk449 wrote:
dmitchell wrote:
According to the Plame affair timeline

Quote:
1 October 2003. As would be revealed in September 7, 2006,

He [Armitage] says he was reading Novak's newspaper column again, on Oct. 1, 2003, and "he [Novak] said he was told by a non-partisan gun slinger."

"I almost immediately called Secretary Powell and said, 'I'm sure that was me,'" Armitage says. Armitage immediately met with FBI agents investigating the leak."

"I told them that I was the inadvertent leak," Armitage says. He didn't get a lawyer, however....Armitage says he didn't come forward because "the special counsel, once he was appointed, asked me not to discuss this and I honored his request."

So the FBI knew Armitage was the leak 1 October 2003; Fitzgerald was deployed 30 December 2003, when the case should have been closed. I have no idea what Fitzgerald was supposed to investigate.

Very interesting. I didn't know that Fitzgerald knew about Armitage from the start. That does make the whole thing even more farcical, and I suppose I have to agree with you - the investigation should not have continued.


Still Trumptardery?
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Judith Miller wrote:
Thirteen years ago, as a New York Times reporter, I went to jail to protect the identity of my news sources, and one source in particular – “Scooter” Libby.

In 2007 I had testified against Libby, saying that I thought he and I had discussed Valerie Plame, a CIA agent whose identity he was said to have leaked to the media to punish her husband for challenging intelligence about weapons of mass destruction that President George W. Bush had cited to justify the 2003 war in Iraq.

Critics of the war were outraged and demanded an independent investigation of the leak by a special prosecutor. While Libby was never charged with leaking Plame's name, he was convicted of lying to the FBI and a grand jury and of obstructing justice in the leak investigation.

At a news conference after Libby's conviction, Patrick Fitzgerald – the special prosecutor appointed by then-Deputy Attorney General James Comey (who later became FBI director) – called my testimony crucial to the verdict.

So why would I be pleased with Libby's pardon? Because after leaving jail and investigating the case, I unearthed information that convinced me not only that my testimony was in error, but that Libby was the victim of an overzealous prosecutor whose investigation should have ended before it began.

I described my findings in a 2015 memoir about high-stakes journalism, “The Story, A Reporter’s Journey.”

The first thing I learned was that John Rizzo, the CIA’s former general counsel and an agency lawyer for over 30 years, disputed prosecutor Fitzgerald’s assertion that Valerie Plame had been a super-secret covert agent who was not well known outside of the intelligence community and that the leak of her name had caused grave, if unspecified, harm to America’s national security.

Rizzo told me in an interview and subsequently wrote in his own book that “dozens, if not hundreds of people in Washington” knew that Plame worked for the CIA. Even more significantly, he said, a CIA damage assessment of the leak had produced “no evidence” that her outing had harmed any CIA operation, any agent in the field, or “anyone else, including Plame herself.”

I also learned that the CIA assessment had been finished in late 2003 or early 2004, long before Libby was indicted or I went to jail. Although prosecutor Fitzgerald knew this, Rizzo's crucial CIA finding became public only after his book was published. But if the leak had caused no national security harm, why had Fitzgerald continued the inquiry?

Fitzgerald refused to discuss the case with me after the trial. Nor would he say why he pursued Libby after learning early in the inquiry that the source of the leak was not Libby, but Richard Armitage, an aide to Secretary of State Colin Powell, who had argued against the war. But Armitage was never punished for releasing classified information.

Then I learned that Fitzgerald had withheld exculpatory evidence not only from me but also from Libby's lawyer that might surely have jogged my memory and prevented me from unwittingly giving false testimony against him. Finally, the prosecutor opposed letting the jury hear information about how often memories of such conversations fail.

I hoped that President Bush might pardon Libby. But while he commuted Libby’s sentence of 30 months in jail, he refused to issue a full pardon despite repeated pleas from Vice President Cheney, who argued that Libby was a de facto scapegoat for public fury over and opposition to the war.

In retrospect, it is clear that Libby’s prosecution marked the beginning of the criminalization of policy differences – a dangerous trend that continues to this day. In light of all this, I'm pleased that Libby has finally been pardoned.


The Beeb's link to the story now just calls him an aide to Cheney. Watching to see if they edit their headline to remove "who leaked".

Trump is a symptom of this rot.

Mod edit: Continued here. --pjp
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