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cokey
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rick Gates becomes the third trump advisor to go for a plea deal into Russian interference into the 2016 election

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/15/politics/rick-gates-plea-deal-mueller-russia-investigation/index.html

If there is nothing to answer to then why are they asking for plea deals?
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
juniper wrote:
The only thing that's changed is your opinion of how bad those things are.


When have I said the the levels of spending in Washington are fine? You're projecting your strawmen onto me, again.


You cheer for Trump, despite his campaign promise to spend. In fact, he promised to spend more than Clinton (well, that really depends on what speech we are talking about).
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokey wrote:
Rick Gates becomes the third trump advisor to go for a plea deal into Russian interference into the 2016 election

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/15/politics/rick-gates-plea-deal-mueller-russia-investigation/index.html

If there is nothing to answer to then why are they asking for plea deals?
You are quoting CNN? :lol: :lol: :lol:

The same network that claimed Comey was going to testify that Trump colluded with the Russians, when in reality he testified to the opposite. The same network that predicted Crooked Hillary would win by an electoral landslide? Next you will be quoting the Onion as hard news! :lol:
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokey wrote:
If there is nothing to answer to then why are they asking for plea deals?
You really don't have clue.

I can't find a more general article I posted about federal prosecutors, but this one covers drug related convictions. The goal of prosecutors is unofficially to have a high success rate for conviction, and they use coercion to achieve that outcome. The main reason people advise against Trump talking to Meuller is because if Trump were to misspeak, it would be considering lying to an investigator and obstruction. Tactics like that are illegal when anyone else does it. Don't tolerate abuse the "justice" system to engineer a conviction. But, yeah, why would anyone take a plea deal.

Quote:
He refused to plead and is now serving a sentence of life without parole.

He refused the plea and is now serving a 55-year sentence.

He [plead to a lower charge], and avoided the prospect of life in prison—eventually receiving a sentence of 11 years.


EDIT: Found a thread, but not the thread I was referencing: Why Corrupt Bankers Avoid Jail
EDIT 2: Still not the thread, but another good reference: A Law Professor Explains Why You Should Never Talk to Police
(I also posted a better link of the referenced Regent University School of Law video in the "video gems" thread)
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokey wrote:
Rick Gates becomes the third trump advisor to go for a plea deal into Russian interference into the 2016 election

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/15/politics/rick-gates-plea-deal-mueller-russia-investigation/index.html

If there is nothing to answer to then why are they asking for plea deals?


Abuse of power. Ask Scooter Libby, or even Former President Clinton.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
You cheer for Trump, despite his campaign promise to spend. In fact, he promised to spend more than Clinton (well, that really depends on what speech we are talking about).


If you paid attention, you'd remember that I supported Rand Paul. However, by December of 2015, I knew Trump would win the GOP nomination and the general election. I knew this because he was funny. He could devastate his opponents with little quips that stuck. He also was a loud mouthed, boorish prick who was turning the politically correct world of beta males on its head.

The USA had gone so far down the rabbit hole of political correctness, that a drastic measure was needed... Trump is that drastic measure.

Running against that arch criminal Hillary really cemented the necessity of his win... and now knowing the treasonous behavior of the nation's intelligence apparatus, FISA court abuses, the DNC, Hillary campaign (though that is redundant) and the MSM... I'd say he was definitely the right man at the right time.

He's no Rand Paul, but he's effective.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
Muso wrote:
juniper wrote:
The only thing that's changed is your opinion of how bad those things are.


When have I said the the levels of spending in Washington are fine? You're projecting your strawmen onto me, again.


You cheer for Trump, despite his campaign promise to spend. In fact, he promised to spend more than Clinton (well, that really depends on what speech we are talking about).
Juniper, have you ever voted for anyone you agreed with on every single issue?
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thirteen Russians criminally charged for interfering in US election, Mueller announces
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

asturm wrote:
Thirteen Russians criminally charged for interfering in US election, Mueller announces


What a fucking idiot. So now all of the countries where the US interferes will start indicting Americans. Obama bragged about interfering in other countries' elections.

FFS.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
asturm wrote:
Thirteen Russians criminally charged for interfering in US election, Mueller announces


What a fucking idiot. So now all of the countries where the US interferes will start indicting Americans. Obama bragged about interfering in other countries' elections.

FFS.

No no no we indicted you first!

USA! USA! USA!

(i'm laughing and i'm crying this is so sad but it's too funny too)
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's so ridiculous. The ultimate "pot calling the kettle black".

Interfering in foreign elections in the bread and butter of the CIA.

Obama admin. sent taxpayer money to campaign to oust Netanyahu

The U.S. is no stranger to interfering in the elections of other countries
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cokey
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
cokey wrote:
Rick Gates becomes the third trump advisor to go for a plea deal into Russian interference into the 2016 election

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/15/politics/rick-gates-plea-deal-mueller-russia-investigation/index.html

If there is nothing to answer to then why are they asking for plea deals?
You are quoting CNN? :lol: :lol: :lol:

The same network that claimed Comey was going to testify that Trump colluded with the Russians, when in reality he testified to the opposite. The same network that predicted Crooked Hillary would win by an electoral landslide? Next you will be quoting the Onion as hard news! :lol:
If you google it it's everywhere
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
cokey wrote:
If there is nothing to answer to then why are they asking for plea deals?
You really don't have clue.
Not really, things end up in court 99.9999% of time here. Bargaining for a plea is quite an american way of things. Just like not having the loser pay the fees for the case (which is absurd btw)

pjp wrote:
I can't find a more general article I posted about federal prosecutors, but this one covers drug related convictions. The goal of prosecutors is unofficially to have a high success rate for conviction, and they use coercion to achieve that outcome. The main reason people advise against Trump talking to Meuller is because if Trump were to misspeak, it would be considering lying to an investigator and obstruction. Tactics like that are illegal when anyone else does it. Don't tolerate abuse the "justice" system to engineer a conviction. But, yeah, why would anyone take a plea deal.

Quote:
He refused to plead and is now serving a sentence of life without parole.

He refused the plea and is now serving a 55-year sentence.

He [plead to a lower charge], and avoided the prospect of life in prison—eventually receiving a sentence of 11 years.


EDIT: Found a thread, but not the thread I was referencing: Why Corrupt Bankers Avoid Jail
EDIT 2: Still not the thread, but another good reference: A Law Professor Explains Why You Should Never Talk to Police
(I also posted a better link of the referenced Regent University School of Law video in the "video gems" thread)
I can't really see how those topics and this correlate. Can you give me an example?
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
juniper wrote:
Muso wrote:
juniper wrote:
The only thing that's changed is your opinion of how bad those things are.


When have I said the the levels of spending in Washington are fine? You're projecting your strawmen onto me, again.


You cheer for Trump, despite his campaign promise to spend. In fact, he promised to spend more than Clinton (well, that really depends on what speech we are talking about).
Juniper, have you ever voted for anyone you agreed with on every single issue?


Nope. However, Muso has expressed that fiscal responsibility is one of primary concerns with a government, along with protecting individual freedoms. I don't think he has been particularly bad or good on the latter, but we are likely heading into a period with the largest government deficits your country has seen.
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Well, every group has its nutjobs, and the Second Amendment crowd is no exception.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
If you paid attention, you'd remember that I supported Rand Paul.


I do remember. Which is why I am always surprised at your Trump enthusiasm. Had I been in the US, I probably would have voted third party. If I was both high and drunk, I might have voted Clinton to keep Trump out (depending on where I was), but I would have vomited in my mouth while doing so. I have said this before about you. I understand your Trump support if it were an anti-Clinton move, but your enthusiasm is puzzling. He has absolutely none of the qualities or Ron or Rand.
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Well, every group has its nutjobs, and the Second Amendment crowd is no exception.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Thirteen Russians have been charged with interfering in the US 2016 election, in a major development in the FBI investigation.

Three of those named have been accused of conspiracy to commit wire fraud and five have been accused of aggravated identity theft.

The announcement was made by Special Counsel Robert Mueller, who is investigating alleged Russian meddling.

Three Russian companies are also named in the indictment.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43092085
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
Muso wrote:
If you paid attention, you'd remember that I supported Rand Paul.


I do remember. Which is why I am always surprised at your Trump enthusiasm. Had I been in the US, I probably would have voted third party. If I was both high and drunk, I might have voted Clinton to keep Trump out (depending on where I was), but I would have vomited in my mouth while doing so. I have said this before about you. I understand your Trump support if it were an anti-Clinton move, but your enthusiasm is puzzling. He has absolutely none of the qualities or Ron or Rand.


Ron or Rand, with a sympathetic congress, could actually fix the USA. Trump can fix a bit. My enthusiasm for Trump is with his Shitlording, which is both brilliant and hilarious. Watching the morons at CNN lose their minds as they try to oust him with fake reports dreamed up by the trolls on 4chan designed to just troll CNN is a thing of total beauty.

The tax reform was a definite improvement, though if income tax cannot be completely removed, the flat tax is the best option... not having the flat tax option, Trump's is still an improvement. Trump has also removed around 11 regulations for each new one. This is wonderful.

I want Trump to bring a sledgehammer on the ridiculous federal bureaucracies.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
My enthusiasm for Trump is with his Shitlording, which is both brilliant and hilarious. Watching the morons at CNN lose their minds as they try to oust him with fake reports dreamed up by the trolls on 4chan designed to just troll CNN is a thing of total beauty.


I watch Peep Show for giggles. I want my leader to be smart and functional and not distract the population with Shitlording. why is this at all a desirable quality in a president?

Quote:
The tax reform was a definite improvement, though if income tax cannot be completely removed, the flat tax is the best option... not having the flat tax option, Trump's is still an improvement.


all he did was reduce tax. that's about as easy for the republicans as increasing spending for the democrats. the hard part is balancing the budget, which he is likely to be the worst president ever at. he hasn't simplified your complicated tax system at all. Corporate tax is down, which is great, but that's about it.

Quote:
Trump has also removed around 11 regulations for each new one. This is wonderful.

I want Trump to bring a sledgehammer on the ridiculous federal bureaucracies.


I agree that's a decent goal (but no just blindly slashing regulation), but his achievements here are overblown.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
I agree that's a decent goal (but no just blindly slashing regulation), but his achievements here are overblown.


He's done more to help the USA in 13 months than Obama did for 8 years. Obama's 8 years caused massive damage.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokey wrote:
I can't really see how those topics and this correlate. Can you give me an example?
See this post of mine.


asturm wrote:
Thirteen Russians criminally charged for interfering in US election, Mueller announces
I read the actual indictment, and there really isn't much there. Essentially they can't do what they did because they're Foreign Agents, and because of that, they violated some laws. Additionally they stole some identities to open bank and paypal accounts (doesn't appear that any "damage" was actually caused to those whose identities were stolen).

From the announcement:

@0:30
with the stated goal of spreading distrust towards the candidates and the political system in general.

@3:40
staged simultaneous rallies in NY on the same day to both support and protest Trump.

@5:20
no allegation in this indictment that any American was a knowing participant
no allegation that the charged conduct altered the outcome of the election

@6:03
indictment serves as a reminder that people are not always who they appear to be on the internet.

the indictment alleges that the Russian conspirators want to promote discord in the US and undermine public confidence in democracy. We must not allow them to succeed.


That last part seems to be the primary point of the indictment IMO.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
cokey wrote:
I can't really see how those topics and this correlate. Can you give me an example?
See this post of mine.
I'm 15 minutes in and still there is no connection. Speaking to the police and agreeing a plea bargain are two different things - in fact one is a loooooong time after the other.

I think everyone has to face facts now that there is lots of evidence of russian involvement in the 2016 election. Not only that but there was collusion by Trump's team and his allies are jumping ship faster like rats in a sinking boat
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can anyone tell me the significance of these "mid-term" elections? What do they change?
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
cokey wrote:
I can't really see how those topics and this correlate. Can you give me an example?
See this post of mine.


asturm wrote:
Thirteen Russians criminally charged for interfering in US election, Mueller announces
I read the actual indictment, and there really isn't much there. Essentially they can't do what they did because they're Foreign Agents, and because of that, they violated some laws. Additionally they stole some identities to open bank and paypal accounts (doesn't appear that any "damage" was actually caused to those whose identities were stolen).

From the announcement:

@0:30
with the stated goal of spreading distrust towards the candidates and the political system in general.

@3:40
staged simultaneous rallies in NY on the same day to both support and protest Trump.

@5:20
no allegation in this indictment that any American was a knowing participant
no allegation that the charged conduct altered the outcome of the election

@6:03
indictment serves as a reminder that people are not always who they appear to be on the internet.

the indictment alleges that the Russian conspirators want to promote discord in the US and undermine public confidence in democracy. We must not allow them to succeed.


That last part seems to be the primary point of the indictment IMO.


https://media.giphy.com/media/joV1k1sNOT5xC/giphy.gif
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
juniper wrote:
You cheer for Trump, despite his campaign promise to spend. In fact, he promised to spend more than Clinton (well, that really depends on what speech we are talking about).


If you paid attention, you'd remember that I supported Rand Paul. However, by December of 2015, I knew Trump would win the GOP nomination and the general election. I knew this because he was funny. He could devastate his opponents with little quips that stuck. He also was a loud mouthed, boorish prick who was turning the politically correct world of beta males on its head.

The USA had gone so far down the rabbit hole of political correctness, that a drastic measure was needed... Trump is that drastic measure.

Right. You can support two candidates with diametrically opposed policies because ... here it comes ... politics isn’t about policy. It’s about which groups of people are elevated, and which groups are devalued. Even though trumps policies didn’t match yours, his victory would hurt the the politically correct beta males.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can keep trying to shoe horn your current theory into everything, but it doesn't make it valid.
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