Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
Audio output pauses for unknown reason
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

Goto page 1, 2  Next  
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Multimedia
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
duby2291
Guru
Guru


Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 520

PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:15 am    Post subject: Audio output pauses for unknown reason Reply with quote

I'm not sure exactly how to describe the bug. Whether it's streaming video thru youtube on firefox or watching a local movie in smplayer or even listening a local mp3 with audacious, every so many seconds the sound will just pause. The only application I found that reflects this is pavucontrol under the output devices tab. Not only does it get paused somehow but the volume slider gets pushed down to something like 10%. The interval between the events is sometimes only a few seconds to 10s of minutes.

Has anyone seen anything like this before? Does it sound like a physical problem? Could it be something like a jack detection issue?[/quote]

Code:
TheBeast duby229 # emerge --info
Portage 2.3.3 (python 3.4.6-final-0, default/linux/amd64/13.0/desktop, gcc-5.4.0, glibc-2.24-r1, 4.10.0-gentoo x86_64)
=================================================================
System uname: Linux-4.10.0-gentoo-x86_64-AMD_Phenom-tm-_II_X4_955_Processor-with-gentoo-2.3
KiB Mem:    16296264 total,    699472 free
KiB Swap:          0 total,         0 free
Timestamp of repository gentoo: Sun, 26 Feb 2017 13:00:01 +0000
sh bash 4.4_p12
ld GNU ld (Gentoo 2.27 p1.0) 2.27
app-shells/bash:          4.4_p12::gentoo
dev-lang/perl:            5.24.1-r1::gentoo
dev-lang/python:          2.7.13::gentoo, 3.4.6::gentoo
dev-util/cmake:           3.7.2::gentoo
dev-util/pkgconfig:       0.29.1::gentoo
sys-apps/baselayout:      2.3::gentoo
sys-apps/openrc:          0.23.2::gentoo
sys-apps/sandbox:         2.10-r3::gentoo
sys-devel/autoconf:       2.13::gentoo, 2.69-r2::gentoo
sys-devel/automake:       1.13.4-r1::gentoo, 1.15-r2::gentoo
sys-devel/binutils:       2.27::gentoo
sys-devel/gcc:            5.4.0-r3::gentoo
sys-devel/gcc-config:     1.8-r1::gentoo
sys-devel/libtool:        2.4.6-r3::gentoo
sys-devel/make:           4.2.1::gentoo
sys-kernel/linux-headers: 4.10::gentoo (virtual/os-headers)
sys-libs/glibc:           2.24-r1::gentoo
Repositories:

gentoo
    location: /usr/portage
    sync-type: rsync
    sync-uri: rsync://rsync.gentoo.org/gentoo-portage
    priority: -1000

localrepo
    location: /usr/local/portage
    masters: gentoo

gamerlay
    location: /var/lib/layman/gamerlay
    masters: gentoo
    priority: 50

steam-overlay
    location: /var/lib/layman/steam-overlay
    sync-type: git
    sync-uri: https://github.com/anyc/steam-overlay.git
    masters: gentoo
    priority: 50

ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="amd64 ~amd64"
ACCEPT_LICENSE="* -@EULA"
CBUILD="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu"
CFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -march=native -mtune=native"
CHOST="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu"
CONFIG_PROTECT="/etc /usr/lib64/libreoffice/program/sofficerc /usr/share/config /usr/share/gnupg/qualified.txt"
CONFIG_PROTECT_MASK="/etc/ca-certificates.conf /etc/dconf /etc/env.d /etc/fonts/fonts.conf /etc/gconf /etc/gentoo-release /etc/php/apache2-php7.1/ext-active/ /etc/php/cgi-php7.1/ext-active/ /etc/php/cli-php7.1/ext-active/ /etc/revdep-rebuild /etc/sandbox.d /etc/splash /etc/terminfo"
CXXFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -march=native -mtune=native"
DISTDIR="/usr/portage/distfiles"
EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--jobs 1000 --keep-going"
FCFLAGS="-O2 -pipe"
FEATURES="assume-digests binpkg-logs config-protect-if-modified distlocks ebuild-locks fixlafiles merge-sync news parallel-fetch preserve-libs protect-owned sandbox sfperms strict unknown-features-warn unmerge-logs unmerge-orphans userfetch userpriv usersandbox usersync xattr"
FFLAGS="-O2 -pipe"
GENTOO_MIRRORS="http://distfiles.gentoo.org"
LANG="en_US.utf8"
LDFLAGS="-Wl,-O1 -Wl,--as-needed"
MAKEOPTS="-j5"
PKGDIR="/usr/portage/packages"
PORTAGE_CONFIGROOT="/"
PORTAGE_RSYNC_OPTS="--recursive --links --safe-links --perms --times --omit-dir-times --compress --force --whole-file --delete --stats --human-readable --timeout=180 --exclude=/distfiles --exclude=/local --exclude=/packages --exclude=/.git"
PORTAGE_TMPDIR="/var/tmp"
USE="X a52 aac acl acpi alsa amd64 berkdb bluray branding bzip2 cairo cdda cddb cdparanoia cdr cli consolekit corefonts cracklib crypt cups cxx d3d9 dbus device-mapper dmraid dri dts dvd dvdr egl emboss encode exif fam fbcon fbcondecor ffmpeg firefox flac fortran gdbm gif glamor gles1 gles2 gpm gtk gtkspell hddtemp iconv jpeg lcms ldap libkms libnotify lm_sensors mad mng modules mp3 mp4 mpeg multilib ncurses networkmanager nls nptl ogg opengl openmp pam pango pcre pdf png policykit ppds pulseaudio qt3support qt4 rar readline s3tc sdl seccomp session smbclient spell ssl startup-notification streaming svg tcpd tiff truetype udev udisks unicode unrar upower usb vdpau vorbis wxwidgets x264 xattr xcb xml xv xvid zlib" ABI_X86="64 32" ALSA_CARDS="ali5451 als4000 atiixp atiixp-modem bt87x ca0106 cmipci emu10k1x ens1370 ens1371 es1938 es1968 fm801 hda-intel intel8x0 intel8x0m maestro3 trident usb-audio via82xx via82xx-modem ymfpci" APACHE2_MODULES="authn_core authz_core socache_shmcb unixd actions alias auth_basic authn_alias authn_anon authn_dbm authn_default authn_file authz_dbm authz_default authz_groupfile authz_host authz_owner authz_user autoindex cache cgi cgid dav dav_fs dav_lock deflate dir disk_cache env expires ext_filter file_cache filter headers include info log_config logio mem_cache mime mime_magic negotiation rewrite setenvif speling status unique_id userdir usertrack vhost_alias" CALLIGRA_FEATURES="kexi words flow plan sheets stage tables krita karbon braindump author" COLLECTD_PLUGINS="df interface irq load memory rrdtool swap syslog" CPU_FLAGS_X86="mmx mmxext 3dnow 3dnowext sse sse2 sse3 ssse3" ELIBC="glibc" GPSD_PROTOCOLS="ashtech aivdm earthmate evermore fv18 garmin garmintxt gpsclock isync itrax mtk3301 nmea ntrip navcom oceanserver oldstyle oncore rtcm104v2 rtcm104v3 sirf skytraq superstar2 timing tsip tripmate tnt ublox ubx" INPUT_DEVICES="libinput keyboard mouse" KERNEL="linux" L10N="en en_US" LCD_DEVICES="bayrad cfontz cfontz633 glk hd44780 lb216 lcdm001 mtxorb ncurses text" LIBREOFFICE_EXTENSIONS="presenter-console presenter-minimizer" LINGUAS="en en_US" LLVM_TARGETS="AMDGPU" OFFICE_IMPLEMENTATION="libreoffice" PHP_TARGETS="php5-6" PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET="python2_7" PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7 python3_4" RUBY_TARGETS="ruby21" USERLAND="GNU" VIDEO_CARDS="amdgpu radeonsi radeon r600" XTABLES_ADDONS="quota2 psd pknock lscan length2 ipv4options ipset ipp2p iface geoip fuzzy condition tee tarpit sysrq steal rawnat logmark ipmark dhcpmac delude chaos account"
Unset:  CC, CPPFLAGS, CTARGET, CXX, INSTALL_MASK, LC_ALL, PORTAGE_BUNZIP2_COMMAND, PORTAGE_COMPRESS, PORTAGE_COMPRESS_FLAGS, PORTAGE_RSYNC_EXTRA_OPTS, USE_PYTHON


[Moderator edit: changed [quote] tags to [code] tags to preserve output layout. -Hu]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sharp_Rulez
n00b
n00b


Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Similar issue here.

Got some workaround, but didnt have time to "search for a solution"

Checkout dmesg, i am flooded with these:

Quote:

Mar 3 15:55:03 be pulseaudio[4248]: [alsa-sink-ALC889 Analog] alsa-sink.c: Error opening PCM device front:0: Device or resource busy
Mar 3 15:55:03 be pulseaudio[4248]: [alsa-sink-ALC889 Analog] alsa-sink.c: Error opening PCM device front:0: Device or resource busy
Mar 3 15:58:28 be pulseaudio[4248]: [alsa-sink-ALC889 Analog] alsa-sink.c: Error opening PCM device front:0: Device or resource busy
Mar 3 15:58:28 be pulseaudio[4248]: [alsa-sink-ALC889 Analog] alsa-sink.c: Error opening PCM device front:0: Device or resource busy


Swapping audio output might help, but that is not a solution... Rebooting also clear up the issue for a while.

I hope i'll have time to dig in this weekend. Plenty of new issues like that since i moved to kde5 :\

Edit: just realized it can also be kernel related. Quoting my version just in case..
Code:
cat /proc/version
Linux version 4.9.0-be (root@be) (gcc version 4.9.4 (Gentoo 4.9.4 p1.0, pie-0.6.4) ) #7 SMP PREEMPT Sun Jan 1 11:19:31 EST 2017
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
duby2291
Guru
Guru


Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 520

PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmm, well "dmesg | grep pulseaudio" comes blank. Perhaps I need to enable addition logging in my kernel config? If that is a possibility I can post it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hrnick
Guru
Guru


Joined: 31 Aug 2002
Posts: 328

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

duby2291 wrote:
hmm, well "dmesg | grep pulseaudio" comes blank. Perhaps I need to enable addition logging in my kernel config? If that is a possibility I can post it.

I have the same problem and I can't see any output in dmesg either. Does anyone have an idea if this is due to some kind of debugging being disabled?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
duby2291
Guru
Guru


Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 520

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So now that We know multiple folks are experiencing this, I think I can rule out this being a physical hardware problem on my computer. Do you guys think I should file a bug report on gentoo's bugzilla? If so what information should I provide so that it would be effective?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Baritone
n00b
n00b


Joined: 16 Aug 2016
Posts: 10
Location: Москва

PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have same isue.
AMD64,
00:14.2 Audio device: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA)
01:00.1 Audio device: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Cedar HDMI Audio [Radeon HD 5400/6300 Series]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hrnick
Guru
Guru


Joined: 31 Aug 2002
Posts: 328

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baritone wrote:
I have same isue.
AMD64,
00:14.2 Audio device: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA)
01:00.1 Audio device: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Cedar HDMI Audio [Radeon HD 5400/6300 Series]

Does the following command give you the same error messages as Sharp_Rulez?
Code:
dmesg | grep pulseaudio
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
duby2291
Guru
Guru


Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 520

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, so now I'm coming across another bug that I think is directly related....

I recently bought a Blue Ice USB microphone, it literally just plugged in and worked, no hassle. I'm mixing voice over a beat, and I realized that when Iplug in the headphones into the headphone jack on the front panel, PA doesn't mute the desktop speakers or turn on the headphone jack. So I opened pavucontrol and selected the headphone port to enable the headphone jack but it still does not mute the desktop speakers. Ok fine, but then seconds later it automatically, by itself, switches back to the line in jack.... WTF. I'm really pissed. No error messages, undefined behavior, erratic behavior, and multiple people experiencing it...

EDIT: Really it's the obviously bugged behavior with no error messages that pisses me off the most. I can't even begin to define it let alone fix it because there is absoluteluy no indication of what is wrong. Even though it's completely obvious that something is wrong.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
eccerr0r
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Posts: 6051
Location: almost Mile High in the USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pulseaudio is a userland application, so it won't show up as a kernel issue. You may want to check your syslog or if running systemd, journal (journalctl) for information.

The behavior being described can happen when you have a mixture of pulseaudio applications and alsa applications that are not using pulseaudio-alsa properly. For the most part I've found that pulseaudio on my machine (gnome/systemd) works fine, with the occasional (once every few weeks or so) exception where sound gets corrupt from wine. Restarting wine fixes the problem, but this isn't the problem you're having.

Do you have USE=alsa-plugin for media-sound/pulseaudio (this should be default now)? What sound applications are you using (please also include mixers, including the ones part of your DE). Make sure they are all using USE=pulseaudio if they can. Might want to emerge --newuse @world to clean out some use flags.
_________________
Intel Core i7 2700K@ 4.1GHz/HD3000 graphics/8GB DDR3/180GB SSD
What am I supposed watching?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hampelratte
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 154

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure, if this is related to your problems, but I also had the problem, that pulseaudio stopped working. This happened, whenever I enabled the second screen via KDE/xrandr. I first didn't see a connection and thought WTF, pulseaudio?!?, But then I realized, that my second screen is connected via HDMI. So the graphics card probably enables the internal soundcard, whenever the output is enabled. I don't know why, but pulseaudio somehow decides, that's that the better output and switches to it. But I can go to the systems settings and switch that back.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hrnick
Guru
Guru


Joined: 31 Aug 2002
Posts: 328

PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone have any updates or new ideas?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hrnick
Guru
Guru


Joined: 31 Aug 2002
Posts: 328

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tried this but unfortunately it didn't help.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Logicien
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Posts: 1323
Location: Montréal

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Close any graphical session will stop pulseaudio. It can be verified with the ps command. Than if you open a user session in a Linux terminal on tty1 and play a sound file or a video file (mplayer can on a Linux framebuffer) does the sound stop and go down? Without Pulseaudio controlling the sound card audio applications use Alsa directly. It's a test I propose to be sure that the problem occur only when Pulseaudio is active.

You can disable the Pulseaudio application when start and you X and a desktop session and start it by your own with some useful options like
Code:
pulseaudio  --log-level=4 --log-target=file:pulse.log --start

Than you have all logs in a debug mode from Pulseaudio in ~/pulse.log. Than hopefully it can give some useful informations when the sound stop and go down.
_________________
Paul
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hrnick
Guru
Guru


Joined: 31 Aug 2002
Posts: 328

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your input Logicien!

It's Pulseaudio related for sure, the problem does not occur in Audacious using the ALSA plugin but it does when the Pulseaudio one is used. Firefox always has the problem and it uses Pulseaudio since some time back.

I ran a pulseaudio -k and started running it again using the log level you suggested. I'll get back once I've taken a look at the logs.

Thanks again!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hrnick
Guru
Guru


Joined: 31 Aug 2002
Posts: 328

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have created two logs.

The first one is the startup of pulseaudio (pulseaudio -k && pulseaudio --log-level=4 --log-target=file:pulse.log --start).

The second one is the log after successfully starting the daemon and playing music using Audacious and the Pulseaudio plugin. After the problem occurred once pulseaudio -k was run.

What caught my attention was the following:
Code:
D: [pulseaudio] sink-input.c: The volume of sink input 1 changed from front-left: 62415 /  95% / -1,27 dB,   front-right: 62415 /  95% / -1,27 dB to front-left: 37899 /  58% / -14,27 dB,   front-right: 37899 /  58% / -14,27 dB.
...
D: [pulseaudio] sink-input.c: The volume of sink input 1 changed from front-left: 37899 /  58% / -14,27 dB,   front-right: 37899 /  58% / -14,27 dB to front-left: 62415 /  95% / -1,27 dB,   front-right: 62415 /  95% / -1,27 dB.

The volume was not changed by the user during the time the log was written.

Also the pavucontrol interface goes blank with the following message when the error occurs:
Code:
Establishing connection to PulseAudio. Please wait...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Logicien
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Posts: 1323
Location: Montréal

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a Pulseaudio module call module-suspend-on-idle who can be disabled by put the related lines in remark in /etc/pulse/daemon.conf /etc/pulse/default.pa and /etc/pulse/system.pa. It suspend Pulseaudio after 5 seconds of idle time I think.

For tests purpose I propose that you only keep one sound card active and disable all others in the Configuration tab of Pavucontrol and uncheck all options in Paprefs. Of course Pulseaudio must be restarted.
_________________
Paul
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hrnick
Guru
Guru


Joined: 31 Aug 2002
Posts: 328

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found module-suspend-on-idle in /etc/pulse/system.pa and /etc/pulse/default.pa and commented the line in both. This did not help.

The only thing listed under the Configuration tab in pavucontrol is Built-in Audio and all its profiles. Everything is unchecked in paprefs.

Thanks for your help so far!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fitzcarraldo
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 30 Aug 2008
Posts: 1282
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you tried adding 'tsched=0' in /etc/pulse/default.pa as shown below, and restarting PulseAudio? That option disables timer-based audio scheduling and enables interrupt-driven audio instead. I've had to do that in the past on some machines. Worth a try, anyway.

Code:
### Automatically load driver modules depending on the hardware available
.ifexists module-udev-detect.so
load-module module-udev-detect tsched=0
.else
### Use the static hardware detection module (for systems that lack udev support)
load-module module-detect
.endif

_________________
Clevo W230SS: amd64, OpenRC, nvidia-drivers & xf86-video-intel.
Compal NBLB2: ~amd64, OpenRC, xf86-video-ati, dual booting with Win 7 Pro 64-bit.
KDE on both laptops.

Fitzcarraldo's blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hrnick
Guru
Guru


Joined: 31 Aug 2002
Posts: 328

PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the suggestion Fitzcarraldo, unfortunately it didn't help.

I've continued the troubleshooting and noticed the following:

1. I am using a digital TOSLINK output on the motherboard right now. I don't get the same problems using an analog 3.5 mm output connected to a stereo.

2. If both the digital and analog outputs are connected and the digital one is used it will switch to the analog output as soon as the problem occurs. Log can be found here.

So it seems to be related to the digital output.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hrnick
Guru
Guru


Joined: 31 Aug 2002
Posts: 328

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is what I can find upstream that is similar to this problem. They're both pretty old though (started in 2012 and no post for over two years):

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54881
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49608

Does anyone else have any ideas or is it time to create a bug upstream? Do you have any more input duby2291 and Baritone? Has any of the steps we have tried here worked for you?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
duby2291
Guru
Guru


Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 520

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hrnick wrote:
This is what I can find upstream that is similar to this problem. They're both pretty old though (started in 2012 and no post for over two years):

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54881
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49608

Does anyone else have any ideas or is it time to create a bug upstream? Do you have any more input duby2291 and Baritone? Has any of the steps we have tried here worked for you?


I totally forgot about this thread. Sorry, actually I decided to rebuild world without pulseaudio and have just been using alsa since then. I do miss some of the features of pavucontrol though, but I've just been getting by without it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hrnick
Guru
Guru


Joined: 31 Aug 2002
Posts: 328

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Updating pulseaudio to version 10.99.1 did not make a difference, it actually introduced some other errors so I downgraded to 10.0 again.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hrnick
Guru
Guru


Joined: 31 Aug 2002
Posts: 328

PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same thing in pulseaudio v11.0. :(

So do you think it's a good time for an upstream bug report...?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
duby2291
Guru
Guru


Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 520

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hrnick wrote:
Same thing in pulseaudio v11.0. :(

So do you think it's a good time for an upstream bug report...?


Yeah I think so. Just today I was having a conversation with some folks and they don't even seem to be aware that this problem exists on gentoo.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hrnick
Guru
Guru


Joined: 31 Aug 2002
Posts: 328

PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

duby2291 wrote:
Yeah I think so. Just today I was having a conversation with some folks and they don't even seem to be aware that this problem exists on gentoo.


Oh wow, thanks! I'll try post a bug this coming weekend.

Thanks again for all your help! I appreciate it!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Multimedia All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum