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Tony0945
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Joined: 25 Jul 2006
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Location: Illinois, USA
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 Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:56 am Post subject: |
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| NeddySeagoon wrote: | Tony0945,
HDMI is automagic. You can fiddle with it a little but not a lot.
It will also get rid of the digital to analogue conversion to get the analogue video signal onto the cable and the analogue to digital conversion that the display must do - unless you still have a CRT display.
That gets you a much sharper image as one pixel in the video card is constrained to map to one pixel on the screen. |
Thanks! It's a 22 inch LED Samsung monitor not a TV. I still want to use the external speakers for audio. The monitor does not have speakers. So, I just have to buy a 6 foot hdmi cable and use it instead of the DSUB? I HATE those DSUB connections. |
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wrc1944
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:58 am Post subject: |
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@Tony0945,
As far as I knew, from the sparse info that there is AM4 boards no longer provided any PCI slots, only PCIe. Must have missed that on the Biostar AM4 GT5 specs.
I had resigned myself to replacing my older (but still excellent) M-Audio Delta 1010 LE 8/8 socket sound card. I can't say I really have that much confidence in a first version of a Biostar AM4 board
I think the writing is on the wall for the regular PCI slots, and most AM4 boards are dropping them (hope I'm wrong), even if there are countless PCI cards that are still very funtional.
BTW- I have a 24 inch LED Samsung monitor, and I finally went with a 6ft. HDMI cable from DVI, works perfectly. I didn't know much about HDMI, so to be sure I got the right type I looked at :
http://www.hdmi.org/consumer/finding_right_cable.aspx and a few other sites.
In the weeds re HDMI: http://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/hdmi-cable-speed http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/index.htm
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Last edited by wrc1944 on Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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NeddySeagoon
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:31 am Post subject: |
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Tony0945,
You will get audio down the HDMI cable if you are not careful.
There is hours of fun for all the family in fixing that but if your analogue sound care is first in lspci, you will be good.
I have a mix here Dual link DVI, a couple of HDMIs and a VGA only that's normally headless. I still have a 17" CRT for that system.
Digital Video either works or it doesn't. Gold plated connectors don't make any measurable difference to the signal quality, only the asking price of the cable.
Avoid cheap HDMI cables, they may be poorly made. Avoid expensive HDMI cables, you are being ripped off.
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Zucca
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:04 am Post subject: |
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I think gold plating is there for prevent oxidation (since gold doesn't react to almost anything), thus for longevity, not because it conducts well (copper, silver and platinum are for that).
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NeddySeagoon
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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Zucca,
Yep, the connector pins will have gold flashing as a matter of course. However you can't see them.
The gold on the outside of the HDMI connector is worthless, or worse.
Look at the connector the cable goes into. Most are tinned, not gold.
Tin on tin works, gold on gold works, tin on gold is often a problem.
The PC industry learned this a long time ago for memory sticks but it applies to all connectors.
Tin oxide forms at the bimetallic junction, which is a semiconductor. In the case of HDMI gold plated connector shells, the screening becomes less effective.
On memory modules, you get memory errors.
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NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
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Zucca
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| NeddySeagoon wrote: | Tin oxide forms at the bimetallic junction, which is a semiconductor. In the case of HDMI gold plated connector shells, the screening becomes less effective.
On memory modules, you get memory errors. |
Hm. Never thought of that. So gold plating may only be meaningful in shielding/earthing pins/sleeves... However, I'd avoid that too...
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Tony0945
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Location: Illinois, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| NeddySeagoon wrote: | You will get audio down the HDMI cable if you are not careful.
There is hours of fun for all the family in fixing that but if your analogue sound care is first in lspci, you will be good. |
I think I'll be OK on my present mobo. The new mobo is anyone's guess. Both devices are on-board. Here's the relevant excerpt from lspci: | Code: | 00:14.2 Audio device: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA)
00:14.3 ISA bridge: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] SB7x0/SB8x0/SB9x0 LPC host controller
00:14.4 PCI bridge: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] SBx00 PCI to PCI Bridge
00:14.5 USB controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] SB7x0/SB8x0/SB9x0 USB OHCI2 Controller
01:05.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RS880 [Radeon HD 4200]
01:05.1 Audio device: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RS880 HDMI Audio [Radeon HD 4200 Series]
02:00.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation 82574L Gigabit Network Connection
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wrc1944
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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FWIW, here's a new page (Jan.30) on Zen pricing comparisons, etc. Over 700 comments. As usual, take with grain of salt- could be speculation BS, but I have usually found wccftech worth a read.....
http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-processor-6-core-model-700-usd-rumor
| Quote: | AMD Ryzen Processors To Have 8 Core and 4 Core Variants – No 6 Core SKU In The Works, Rumors Allege
It looks like AMD is finally going to launch Ryzen is a few months with a full fledged AM4 lineup. We know that the AMD Ryzen family is internally known as Summit Ridge. Details of the processors were first leaked several months ago which pointed to three variants. The high-end variants were labeled as AMD Zen SR7, the mid-tier variants were labeled as Zen SR5 while the entry-level variants were labeled as Zen SR3.
AMD Ryzen Enthusiast Flagship Processors May Cost Up To $720 US
The second part to this story is also a rumor coming from Zolkorn which alleges that the top SKU in the Ryzen family may cost between $580 to $720 US. Judging the performance of the Ryzen sample which AMD tested against the Core i7-6900K, this may in fact be the case. The top-end SKU which is clocked beyond 3.6 GHz at the base clock and boosts beyond that was demonstrated at multiple events against the Intel based chip.
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For me, if even close to reality these prices are alarming, and beyond what I was hoping for. I'm finding it hard to wrap my head around paying $580-$720 for a mainstream AMD processor. 
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asturm
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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Why, let them earn money if they really manage to beat Intel at that price point. Doesn't mean you won't get competitive versions in the $ 200-500,- product range.
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ct85711
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | For me, if even close to reality these prices are alarming, and beyond what I was hoping for. I'm finding it hard to wrap my head around paying $580-$720 for a mainstream AMD processor. |
Even those prices are still a decent amount below the high end Intel Skylake CPU's was said to run about $1,000, but yet I am seeing reports that the prices has been dropping quite a bit already. |
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NeddySeagoon
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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wrc1944,
Once yields of high end processors improve, prices will drop.
If AMD hurt Intels income stream, there will be price cutting all round too. The early adopters won't see the benefits though.
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Tony0945
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| wrc1944 wrote: | | For me, if even close to reality these prices are alarming, and beyond what I was hoping for. I'm finding it hard to wrap my head around paying $580-$720 for a mainstream AMD processor. |
Me too. I'm willing to pay the $500 that was most recently talked about, as a once in my lifetime thing, but $700 is nuts. It's not that much better.
If that's the case, I'll wait for a sale or kernel support for skylake to improve, whichever comes first. I'm betting it's the sale. $500 for 8 cores, tops. |
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depontius
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Tony0945 wrote: | | wrc1944 wrote: | | For me, if even close to reality these prices are alarming, and beyond what I was hoping for. I'm finding it hard to wrap my head around paying $580-$720 for a mainstream AMD processor. |
Me too. I'm willing to pay the $500 that was most recently talked about, as a once in my lifetime thing, but $700 is nuts. It's not that much better.
If that's the case, I'll wait for a sale or kernel support for skylake to improve, whichever comes first. I'm betting it's the sale. $500 for 8 cores, tops. |
As long as you're willing to pay the same price-for-performance to AMD that your are with Intel I'm OK with that. Classically, whenever Intel is "unfettered by competition" they lose their way. Ars Technica has noted this in their reviews of KabyLake (Oops, had Skylake here originally.) as being rather lackluster. I pay for performance, and if it's a tie I'll give it to AMD over Intel, simply to keep competition alive in the marketplace. (For me, ties go to the underdog.)
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wrc1944
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-am4-motherboard-details-features
More info Jan. 31 (Quotes from page):
| Quote: | AORUS and MSI Detailed – ASUS Crosshair VI Hero and Prime X370 Pictured
AMD Partners Show Off New Ryzen Motherboards – Full AM4 Lineups Being Prepped For Summit Ridge, Bristol Ridge and Raven Ridge Processors
ASUS, MSI and GIGABYTE went in full detail to reveal key features and technologies of their AM4 boards. A range of new features would allow great experience and compatibility with a wide array of I/O devices. |
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wrc1944
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:40 am Post subject: |
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This looks like some good news! They have some actual chip stepping numbers revealed. Much more encouraging. 
http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-6-core-8-core-processor-clock-speeds-confirmed
| Quote: |
AMD Ryzen 8 Core Model With Up To 4.0 GHz Boost Clocks
The AMD Ryzen 8 core model comes with SMT enabled and has 16 threads. The chip is labeled as “ZD3406BAM88F4_38/34_Y” which also reveals both base and boost clocks. The base clocks for this chip are 3.4 GHz and the boost clocks are spec’d at 3.8 GHz. The processor will feature 16 MB of L3 cache and 4 MB of L2 cache in total. The TDP for the 8 core model is rated at 95W and will feature an unlocked multiplier for overclocking.
Ryzen 6 core model is real and comes with SMT enabled which makes up 12 threads. The chip has the “ZD3301BBM6IF4_37/33_Y” codename and just like the 8 core model, is a close to final version.
The AMD Ryzen lineup will also feature quad core variants with eight threads but details about them aren’t available at the moment
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Some more info at: https://videocardz.com/65654/amd-ryzen-6-core-cpu-exists
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Tony0945
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wrc1944
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:39 am Post subject: |
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Tony0945,
I was thinking that with the move to 14nm and then subsequent 10nm or even 7nm versions, and also with no gpu on the Zen processors, that cooling would be much less of a problem than the AM3+ model lineup required, thus less need for super expensive cooling solutions. I was assuming that with a top TDP of 65W-95W we could expect $30-$40 air coolers would suffice for most users.
Anyway, FWIW, more Zen/AM4 in depth details have showed up Feb. 4:
| Quote: | | AMD Ryzen Processor Lineup Leaks Out, R7 1800X 4 GHz Flagship CPU Detailed – Up To 17 8 Core, 6 Core, 4 Core Models, 2nd March Launch |
http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-am4-processor-family-leak-r7-1800x-flagship
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NeddySeagoon
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:54 am Post subject: |
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Team,
I have a feeling that AMD will only manufacture the 8 core Ryzen to start with.
The silicon that almost but doesn't quite work, will be downgraded to 6 or 4 cores and sold at much reduced prices.
Its better for the bottom line than scrapping it. It may or may not be possible to enable the failed cores and test for yourself.
Readers with long memories will remember the introduction of the Intel 486SX, which to begin with, was a 486DX with a faulty FPU.
In fact, many early Intel 486SX had apparently serviceable FPUs. Later, Intel made a special 486SX die, without the FPU.
AMD have done something similar in the past with multicore CPUs.
I won't be rushing in to update to Ryzen.
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wrc1944
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Tony0945
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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I was thinking Top of the Line, but is 0.2GHz worth $100? I'd like to see 4.0 non-turbo before shelling out an extra C-note |
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NeddySeagoon
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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Tony0945,
In the early days, you can be sure that the 1700X won't overclock within spec to 4G.
If they did, AMD would sell them as 1800X parts instead.
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NeddySeagoon
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wrc1944
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:25 am Post subject: |
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NeddySeagoon wrote:
| Quote: | In the early days, you can be sure that the 1700X won't overclock within spec to 4G.
If they did, AMD would sell them as 1800X parts instead. |
I've found that generally true, but over the years it's been my experience with most AMD processors you can usually get a small to moderate overclock by making sure you have really good cooling, which allows a slight voltage boost and thus you can set a 2-3% clock boost. I'm not talking about extreme overclocking, and/or liquid cooler rigs, but just a top-notch air cooler system. However, I have not really done any overclocks in a few years, as the hardware was getting better and better.
Guess we'll find out when the user an pro tester reviews start coming in. I'd expect some almost right away after the hardware comes on the market.
Some new info:
http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-7-1700x-389-8-core-cpu-benchmarks-leaked
Feb 12 updated full lineup details: http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-full-lineup-pricing-clock-speeds-leaked
Not being a gamer needing massive video capabilities, the 1700x on a 350 board might be my choice. I'm just hoping these prices are legit.
Depending on what the performance reviews report compared to my aging FX-8320 and Phenom II 6 core 1090t, I could even consider the R5 1600x.
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wrc1944
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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Feb. 14 news:
| Quote: | AMD Ryzen 7 1800X, 1700X & 1700 February 28 Launch Confirmed – Available Now For Pre-Order At €499, €389 & €319
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AMD Ryzen AM4 Motherboard Chipsets pricing/specs pix and table ar shown towards bottom of article right before the comments section.
http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-7-1800x-1700x-1700
https://videocardz.com/65965/amd-ryzen-7-available-for-prorder-from-european-retailer
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Tony0945
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| wrc1944 wrote: | | Feb. 14 news: |
Looks like 1800X is the way to go. I prefer to let the chip overclock itself. Wraith cooler or Noctua? For 20 euros ($25 ?), I say go with the Wraith then buy the $100 Noctua if it doesn't work out.
Release date in USA? So far all the leaks have been from Europe and Asia. The mobo manufacturers are totally mum, not even an acknowledgement that someday they will have mobos. AM4 chips have been out since last October but you wouldn't know that from http://www.gigabyte.us/.
I'm not buying a chip until I can order a mobo. Getting ready though. I updated the target box's HDD to GCC 6.3.0 and switched the display from VGA to HDMI.
Still not sure about power supply. The Antec EA-500D is old and non-monolithic, but it's a very good PSU and already in the box. The extra cables are tucked on top of the DVD-ROM. OTOH, it's six years old. The capacitors won't last forever. Which reminds me that the DVD-ROM is IDE and surely the new mobo won't support it. For the umpteenth time, I remind myself to look in the basement for a SATA DVD-ROM. Used is OK because I rarely use it. My sysrescuecd is on a USB stick. |
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ct85711
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:01 am Post subject: |
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| Code: | | Looks like 1800X is the way to go. I prefer to let the chip overclock itself. Wraith cooler or Noctua? For 20 euros ($25 ?), I say go with the Wraith then buy the $100 Noctua if it doesn't work out. |
Personally, I'd skip trying the wraith, and go straight for a better cooler (Noctura or other). For me, I'd rather have the cooler be rated for a higher TDP and keep the CPU at a cooler temp than their 60-70C (which you can almost bet you'll easily exceed when you are fully using that cpu). |
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