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Fitzcarraldo
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

augustin wrote:
SDDM, the KDM replacement, seems to require systemd for error logging to be fully functional.
See: http://linux.overshoot.tv/ticket/11047

http://linux.overshoot.tv/wiki/kde_and_systemd

Then I'm glad I'm using LightDM (patched to enable Suspend/Hibernate from LightDM GTK Greeter by using ConsoleKit instead of <UPower-0.99.0 or systemd-logind).
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roki942
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fitzcarraldo wrote:
augustin wrote:
SDDM, the KDM replacement, seems to require systemd for error logging to be fully functional.
See: http://linux.overshoot.tv/ticket/11047

http://linux.overshoot.tv/wiki/kde_and_systemd

Then I'm glad I'm using LightDM (patched to enable Suspend/Hibernate from LightDM GTK Greeter by using ConsoleKit instead of <UPower-0.99.0 or systemd-logind).


WOW!
Quote:
From our side this is a clear wontfix or more a cantfix. Please do not expect us to go an extramile to support a corner case of the corner case.
Guess that clearly shows the "Big Time Developers" viewpoint of not using systemd. (I'm not pointing my finger at Gentoo Devs, you guys are great in my book!)
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shevy
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(I decided to add to this thread, rather than create a new, separate thread, because it seems to fit to the topic at hand,
e. g. KDE and systemd, so it may be easier for people to find related/grouped information that way.)

KDE may go the systemd-only route.

This is a recent blog entry from a KDE developer (July 2020):

http://blog.davidedmundson.co.uk/blog/modern-process-management-on-the-desktop/

He claims it will not be mandatory, but he does not list the alternatives to systemd here, which makes
his entry very dubious at best. I mean, to what other "managed service" does he refer to? Surely
not cgroups alone per se. And I am not aware of an alternative to systemd that fits the description
he did on his blog there.

I am curious what the BSD users will have to say about KDE slowly moving to increase the systemd
dependencies, step by step.

It also fits to the earlier post made in 2015, in this very thread (first page) and again it is David Edmundson.

It's interesting to see that individual KDE devs are much more proactive in regards to systemd-integration
than others; I haven't read any pr-systemd article by Nate yet, for instance, and he is one of the
most prolific blog authors in regards to KDE. So that is now the second time David reasons in favour
of systemd-lock-in. Third time will be the charm I guess?

By the way, related to the more general theme: I disagree that people should submit to "accepting"
systemd, or leave Linux towards BSD. This is akin to running away from the battle field when
you are under pressure. Fight back against slavery - props to Dantrell B. for showing that you
CAN fight back (admittedly I would not have had enough patience myself to undo the damage
caused by the systemd guys, but I also fail to see the point of abandoning linux merely because
Red Hat tries to hijack the area with its corporate hackers).
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Fitzcarraldo
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shevy,

He does say the following, so I'm not overly concerned yet:

David Edmundson wrote:
What if I don't have an appropriate cgroup controller?

(e.g BSD users)

As we're just adding metadata, everything used now will continue to work exactly as it does now. All existing tools work exactly the same. Within our task manager we still will keep a process view (it's still useful regardless) and we won't put in any code that relies on the cgroup metadata present. We'll keep the existing heuristics for matching windows with external events, cgroup metadata would just be a strongly influence factor in that. Things won't get worse, but we won't be able to capitalise on the new features discussed here,

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Clevo W230SS: amd64 nvidia-drivers & xf86-video-intel.
Compal NBLB2: ~amd64 xf86-video-ati. Dual boot Win 7 Pro 64-bit.
OpenRC eudev elogind & KDE on both.

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superjaded
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In addition, that article is less about systemd in particular and more about "cgroup controllers" generally which seems to already be supported by openrc, although i don't know enough about cgroups to be able to speculate whether or not there's something inherent with the openrc cgroup controller that wouldn't satisfy KDE's aim.
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