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Anon-E-moose
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As processors have gotten faster (and more multi-core) the difference between native and generic x86_64 is shrinking as far as performance/optimization.

As far as cpu flags, I used to use march=native w/mtune unset, but I'm tending towards setting march=x86-64 and mtune=native (or nearest if native picking is wonky). That way it should run on everything, w/it being tuned for the ryzen and if I happen to swap to a better processor in the future, the code would run, maybe not optimally the new processor, but it would run (keep from having to set/recompile old code to a lessor processor and then recompile again)
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msst
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
That tells that you are into diminishing returns with a 16 core 32 thread box.
Yes you can sometimes have emerge run several packages is parallel but that depends on the dependency tree.


Well, looking at Ryzen CPUs the most expensive that I think I could justify with some tears is a Ryzen3900x which is close to 400 bucks CPU alone. Thats 12/24 CPU/threads. A threadripper with many cores is just forbiddingly expensive.

Might be worth waiting for Ryzen4?

I also tend to think AMD is the way to go. These shitty CPU mitigations did make my late intel quite a bit slower and there was no way to temporarily disable it for compiler runs except rebooting.
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right, msst. I had the 3900X in the wish list. Bought it for 429 when Uncle same gave me the windfall. it did stimulate the economy - of China.
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msst
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
it did stimulate the economy - of China.


Yeah, clothes, electronics and such is not made locally. 8-;

Just wondering if I should wait for Ryzen 4 models, should appear soon. No idea if it is worth it.
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DaggyStyle
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty happy with my 2700X, 4xF4-3200C14-8GFX on a gigabyte B450 AORUS M running 4 1TB hdds in raid5.
gpu is Radeon RX 550 btw.

my brother switched his gaming machine to 3700x, 2xF4-3200C14-8GFX, gigabyte mb, gb nvme, gpu is some high tech nvidia one.

both switched from i7-2600 with 16 GB of ram, no complains here.

so another vote for AMD.
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Anon-E-moose
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I wouldn't buy the first gen 4 ryzen that comes out, I'd wait a few months for any potential problems to show and possibly be addressed.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anon-E-moose,

I wouldn't buy the first version of anything :)
Remember Windows 1.0
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duane
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
Anon-E-moose,

I wouldn't buy the first version of anything :)
Remember Windows 1.0


I remember hearing about it and thinking that it was a solution in search of a problem, since we already had dos task switchers. I believe I actually said, "That's never going to fly."
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

axl wrote:
If it were me, I would hold back a little bit longer. New things are coming to mainstream and it's a major major improvement. PCI 4.0. It promises so much more. And everything else is connected to it. CPU, GPU, NVME. Basically everything and anything. Whatever you buy this year, will be obsolete by next year.

When is this not true? Pointless advice for this reason.
Anon-E-moose wrote:
Personally I wouldn't buy the first gen 4 ryzen that comes out, I'd wait a few months for any potential problems to show and possibly be addressed.

True. Remember the early Ryzens? And now the current hiccups with the new nvidia 3k series? Let the suckers take the first wave in the face, evaluate, then decide once the frequent launch issues are sorted.
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msst
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It might drive the prizes for the Ryzen3 high end processors down however, once Ryzen4 is out...
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poe_1957
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:38 am    Post subject: Amd 3900xt Reply with quote

my 2 cents


My vote for AMD3900XT (+50% power and less consuming they promise but no CPU ventilator) or 3900X (with a very good CPU ventilator). Depending on your budget is this the most Power for the bucks. Going to 3950 with 16 or 32 is an overkill with an AM4 socket. A TRX 40 socket is absolutely necessary if you want to get the most of your processor with a TRX40 Motherboard of course.
(2x16GB) 32 G Ram is sufficient : th most heaviest packet is Libreoffice uses only a short time 31 Gb, mostly less.
I recommend a NVME of 1Tb of Samsung with write speeds of 5000mb/s (latest) you will need it more than a more powerfull processor or more RAM.
A graphics card of 5700XT or better from ATI not from NVIDEA because they do not support your card long enough (until the next version) With ATI you have everlasting support ;-)
And a good MB (ASROCK).
I do not see the need for 64MB or more for the next years unless you want to do REALTIME videogenerating.
In the old times (<32GB) it was necessary to calculate with a factor of 2X, but now ?

ARM would maybe good if you are programming mainly yourself and don't have a dependency on certain programs. But future is black for those architectures in real world.
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty much agree except for nvidia. I buy low cost cards supported by nouveau. Equally cheap radeon cards can be purchased but usually have driver problems. Cheap, low power, good in-kernel driver - got it! I don't game and I have bad eyes. Not only can I not distinguish between HD and 4K, I truly cannot distinguish between SD & HD. So why spend money on a power hungry, heat generating, expensive video card? I was always happy with on-board video (when supported by Linux, every mobo has Windows drivers). I have one machine, a server with an APU, it mostly runs headless and 24 hour so low power consumption is important. The lack of computing power is only noticed when doing the weekly portage updates. It happily provides DNS and files over the LAN.

Those of you of younger years and eagle eyes, probably differ.

IMHO Asrock is a cheap brand. Go with Asus instead. More mainstream, Gigabyte for Intel, MSI for AMD. I liked Gigabyte's dual bios and they used to have good AMD support until Ryzen. On a Linux system the MSI BIOS' bios update software is outstanding.
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poe_1957
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:41 pm    Post subject: @Tony0945 Reply with quote

The reason I take the top videocard is you buy a premium CPU and a lowend card ? The video card is great for multiple desktop, videoplay/editing, more screens (4 pieces at high resolution (4K) and 144Hz refresh).
I have it in combo with a nano OLED screen from LG and all I can say when I saw my other screens next to it WAW !!! Played AVATAR and you see why the 500€ monitor at 144Hz make the big difference no tearing eyes because of the lowrefresh rate, excellent detail. With the lower end videocards I could not archieve this level. They stuck at 60 to 70hz HD resolution.
You need a Displayport 1.4a connection. It would be even better with a 2.0.
No HDMI or DVI-D for me anymore. I have 10bit FULL color, like the pro. Your pictures and movies shine on this masterpiece. The dull LCD screen are far away. I have now this screen for 3 months and never regret my videocard or screenprice. It was worth it !
For the record : 27LG850 (500€) with Freesync and Gsync (although the latter I will not use). The freesync does the job with the Ati Challenger fine.

Even if you have bad eyes you will appreciate the rest it gives to your eyes. None of any 75 Hz screens could give it to me. No tearing eyes for me anymore. This alone was the reason why it was worth the price. Besides that the nice colorspace and the high resolution was a big bonus to rediscover the beauty my old pictures.

Yes there are cheaper videocards, I won't buy them anymore. Mayby when AMD will have CPU with integrated GPU with the same 144Hz refresh rate I will consider them. But I will NOT buy any NVidea card because everytime I bought them in the past they weren't supported anymore after 3 years and i could buy a new card. From ATI i know they willl release the source code and the colour rendering is better than the Nvidea.

But it is your choice. Be free and green or locked in and be a polluter. I have most of my PC's for 10 years until they have a malfunction most are 15 years old, thanks to Linux it is possible. With M$ it would not be. I buy every 5 years a new one so I have always 4 pc's ( 2 laptops, 2 desktops). So I have always minimum 2 working pc's. 1 I upgrade at a time. If I would run at windows I would only have 1 and one broke ;-) Mostly the 4 are working fine; I have been long around since my first PC the Sinclair ZX81 a lot have changed, unfortunatly the internet became more and more censored, 150.000 books aren't free anymore (even payed by public funding) but I hear nothing about that anymore. People are driven, to streaming networks like Netflix and Disneychannels, history is obscured and truth is silenced. Trump has right with FAKE news...
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still running a Geforce 8400GS video card bought for $45 nine years ago. Nouveau in 5.4.66 still supports it. I suspect you are talking about nvidia-drivers.
Bought a GT1030 for my latest build. $84 and it even has a fan on it. High powered card means bigger power supply and cooling problems. Spend your money on CPU & RAM.
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DaggyStyle
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:27 pm    Post subject: Re: @Tony0945 Reply with quote

poe_1957 wrote:
The reason I take the top videocard is you buy a premium CPU and a lowend card ? The video card is great for multiple desktop, videoplay/editing, more screens (4 pieces at high resolution (4K) and 144Hz refresh).
I have it in combo with a nano OLED screen from LG and all I can say when I saw my other screens next to it WAW !!! Played AVATAR and you see why the 500€ monitor at 144Hz make the big difference no tearing eyes because of the lowrefresh rate, excellent detail. With the lower end videocards I could not archieve this level. They stuck at 60 to 70hz HD resolution.
You need a Displayport 1.4a connection. It would be even better with a 2.0.
No HDMI or DVI-D for me anymore. I have 10bit FULL color, like the pro. Your pictures and movies shine on this masterpiece. The dull LCD screen are far away. I have now this screen for 3 months and never regret my videocard or screenprice. It was worth it !
For the record : 27LG850 (500€) with Freesync and Gsync (although the latter I will not use). The freesync does the job with the Ati Challenger fine.

Even if you have bad eyes you will appreciate the rest it gives to your eyes. None of any 75 Hz screens could give it to me. No tearing eyes for me anymore. This alone was the reason why it was worth the price. Besides that the nice colorspace and the high resolution was a big bonus to rediscover the beauty my old pictures.

Yes there are cheaper videocards, I won't buy them anymore. Mayby when AMD will have CPU with integrated GPU with the same 144Hz refresh rate I will consider them. But I will NOT buy any NVidea card because everytime I bought them in the past they weren't supported anymore after 3 years and i could buy a new card. From ATI i know they willl release the source code and the colour rendering is better than the Nvidea.

But it is your choice. Be free and green or locked in and be a polluter. I have most of my PC's for 10 years until they have a malfunction most are 15 years old, thanks to Linux it is possible. With M$ it would not be. I buy every 5 years a new one so I have always 4 pc's ( 2 laptops, 2 desktops). So I have always minimum 2 working pc's. 1 I upgrade at a time. If I would run at windows I would only have 1 and one broke ;-) Mostly the 4 are working fine; I have been long around since my first PC the Sinclair ZX81 a lot have changed, unfortunatly the internet became more and more censored, 150.000 books aren't free anymore (even payed by public funding) but I hear nothing about that anymore. People are driven, to streaming networks like Netflix and Disneychannels, history is obscured and truth is silenced. Trump has right with FAKE news...


this is a pov of a gamer, not every one is a gamer.
I'd happily upgrade my current rig to a tp with 64 gb of ram and a mild gpu than to a ryzen 3900X with 32 GB of ram and a gpu that costs more than the cpu it self assuming it is the same price.
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poe_1957
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:06 pm    Post subject: @DaggyStyle Reply with quote

I am NOT a gamer : I played the Blu-ray movie disk AVATAR ;-),
Editing (own shot) movies and pictures. I have High standards for color. (10bit instead of the usual 8-bit with lower end graphic cards).
Although the Motherboard is called Phantom Gaming it is far more suitable for other things too. And I have no problems with cooling or power. It is all standard.
No water or special cooling mechanism. Prefer metal wings instead of all pumping and ventilating. And Quiet operation.
I do not need for 64GB I have 32 GB +32GB swap (rarely used).
Compiling I do a lot and a 12 core 24 thread is sufficient on a PCI 4.0 board. Most programs do not use 12 cores to compile. Firefox and Libreoffice are exceptions. And they compile in 15 minutes, most time is to prepare the compiling sequence. ;-)
About Asrock : you are wrong : it is the reference board for AMD, not ASUS, Not MSI or Gigabyte. They are overclocking - READ ' reducing livetime' manufacturers with for me too unstable MB. I used MB from both manufacturers both were trown out due to errors in BIOS and MB, resulting in unworkable MB for me. ASROCK MB works or doesn't work. My first had an manufacture problem but it was obvious from start, got an RMA and the new board works flawless. I have used the last 20 years only ASROCK and I am very pleased with them, good price value and long live. I could that not say from any MSI or Gigabytes. Asus is reasonable but pricey.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 6:41 am    Post subject: Re: @DaggyStyle Reply with quote

poe_1957 wrote:
I am NOT a gamer : I played the Blu-ray movie disk AVATAR ;-),

You're claiming a 24fps video looks better on a 144hz monitor? Sure. Is that with or without the monitor's terrible built-in soap opera upscaling filter?
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Anon-E-moose
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the original post asked for mv/cpu not video card recommendations, so a lot of this back and forth about video stuff is meaningless in that context.
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msst
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the way the next Ryzens are announced for November and AMD claims a stiff 20% more performance to their older counterparts. So far AMD has usually delivered on these promises and it is the largest performance jump announced in the last years. For 50 USD extra as they say it would be even reasonably priced.

This will totally nuke Intel CPUs if they cannot fast come up with something new, some 65W AMD cpus will be practically as fast as intels 180W flagship then. I will wait until after Christmas either way to see the prices drop a bit and also to see what bugs are there. But the Ryzen 5900X sounds fairly sexy right now. 8-;
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