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Old School
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:13 am    Post subject: Life On Venus? Reply with quote

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Let’s get the biggest point out of the way first: No, scientists did not announce proof of life on another planet.
What they did find, however, is tantalizing in its potential meaning – though a great deal of work remains to rule out the possibility that other, unknown processes could be creating the phosphine signature detected in Venus’ atmosphere by a team of international researchers using ground-based telescopes on Earth.
In short, it all comes down to the detection of phosphine in a temperate cloud layer of the Venusian atmosphere.
The phosphine signature, confirmed via independent observations from two telescopes on Earth, is certainly intriguing because the only natural way we know of for phosphine to form on terrestrial planets is as a byproduct of life...... One of the easiest ways to naturally produce phosphine through abiotic means is seen in the atmospheres of Jupiter and Saturn, where the immense pressures deep within those planets’ atmospheres utilize hydrogen — in part — to create phosphine.
What members of the discovery team have been able to rule out so far is that the same complex processes that create phosphine at Jupiter and Saturn are not possible on Venus due to the lack of hydrogen atoms — let alone hydrogen gas — in the Venusian atmosphere and the planet’s sheer incapability of producing the pressures necessary for abiotic phosphine production.


SRC

Life in the Venusian atmosphere? There are those that say we should plan a trip to Venus before a Mars expedition, that includes missions in the Goldilocks zone of the atmosphere by way of dirigibles. This news might be persuasive to do such a mission.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First I saw this news as a joke.
There must be a very primitive form of life with reproduction numbers like viruses. But once this is achieved an evolutionary step could be that this life finds a mode to shortly out live in a pizza oven. The next step would be to "sleep" a little longer in this oven of Venus.

Another question: How long would it take to cool down Venus with a giant parasol? (... to kill promptly what we just found)
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course there's life on Venus! That's where women come from, didn't you know?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Venus is extremely hostile to investigations. I'd say there is an excellent chance for life there. But getting any sort of serous investigation would be horrifically expensive. The longest lasting probe to Venus lasted about 10 minutes before being destroyed.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Doctor wrote:
Venus is extremely hostile to investigations. I'd say there is an excellent chance for life there. But getting any sort of serous investigation would be horrifically expensive. The longest lasting probe to Venus lasted about 10 minutes before being destroyed.

That was because it went onto the surface where it is silly hot. This is talking about a region in the upper atmosphere, in the venusian clouds, where the temperatures are ~30C. The downside ... silly strong acid, something we can design to survive
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep. This is the possibility of life in the upper atmosphere. The pressures and temperatures are conducive to life. I believe this region is above the sulfuric acid clouds.

Plus, Venus is much easier and faster to get to than Mars. I believe it makes more sense to go closer to the sun than farther.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
Yep. This is the possibility of life in the upper atmosphere. The pressures and temperatures are conducive to life. I believe this region is above the sulfuric acid clouds.

Plus, Venus is much easier and faster to get to than Mars. I believe it makes more sense to go closer to the sun than farther.
But if life is that much different how would you test for life? What do you expect to see but some kink of virus but without DNA ?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
I believe it makes more sense to go closer to the sun than farther.



It's all fun and games until Sol goes red giant
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nonsense. Venus has the hottest surface temperatures in the solar system (aside from the Sun). Our "scientists" are once again being ignorantly earth-centric in their thinking, trying to project our organic chemistry onto the rest of the universe. It is almost literally flat-earther stupidity.

It is much more rational to assume we do not understand the chemistry of Venus than to assume this indicates the presence of life.

What's almost certainly happening here is that pseudo-scientific journalists are inflating the slim possibilities they've been told about. A scientist probably said, "well this is interesting, and a little bit exciting, because on earth this would indicate life", and then the PR office said "this is what we need to release so we get some continuation funding during the impending government shutdown negotiations", and they released it to the so-called journalists, wo did their thing, and the general press and the world of Facebooking morons amplified and echoed the distortion.

Take it from Boney, don't get your pecker in a chub over this one. They just couldn't say they found another inhabitable planet, because they've used that one too many times in recent circumstances.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bones McCracker wrote:
Nonsense. Venus has the hottest surface temperatures in the solar system .


You clearly haven't experienced the office that I used to work in (pre-COVID)
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bones McCracker wrote:
Nonsense. Venus has the hottest surface temperatures in the solar system (aside from the Sun). Our "scientists" are once again being ignorantly earth-centric in their thinking, trying to project our organic chemistry onto the rest of the universe. It is almost literally flat-earther stupidity.

It is much more rational to assume we do not understand the chemistry of Venus than to assume this indicates the presence of life.
:cry: :cry: :cry:
I was so excited! Now it is just an unknown mechanism of chemistry :cry:

But defending an idea nurtering my phantasy:
- Think of the saharian dust blown to amazonian forests. These particles take with them viruses protected from killing sun light and an amount of various minerals.
- Think of the atmosphere of Venus, which is much much thicker and with much much stronger winds.

If there is a higher layer of this atmosphere in stable orbit and this layer can hold tiny particles for a long time? Such particles would crash together softly every now and then. That is when a living population on one tiny particle of dust meets another on another tiny particle. Quickly these guys celebrate an orgy of sex with the other population in a tiny fraction of time. Like if we would meet other worlds with human populations every month for less than a day.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
the surface where it is silly hot.
That's the CO2.

Old School wrote:
Plus, Venus is much easier and faster to get to than Mars. I believe it makes more sense to go closer to the sun than farther.
I'm rooting for the Musk-eteers to help divert overpopulation, which in turn should help reduce the toxic climate. Otherwise I'm planet agnostic. Venus would need major CO2 scrubbing just to get the temps down from silly hot to just hot.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Naib wrote:
the surface where it is silly hot.
That's the CO2.

Old School wrote:
Plus, Venus is much easier and faster to get to than Mars. I believe it makes more sense to go closer to the sun than farther.
I'm rooting for the Musk-eteers to help divert overpopulation, which in turn should help reduce the toxic climate. Otherwise I'm planet agnostic. Venus would need major CO2 scrubbing just to get the temps down from silly hot to just hot.
You are thinking earthcentric. If Venus was settled, it would be colonies in the atmosphere, not on the surface.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cloud Cities sound cool, but that seems like a harder problem to solve than dealing with the additional transit time to and form Mars.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my thoughts about this for the last decades are that Mars is where life as we know it once was. Earth currently is. And Venus will sometime be.
the molecule found on Venus does not necessary mean there is life but could mean there are building stones for future life.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

e3k wrote:
my thoughts about this for the last decades are that Mars is where life as we know it once was.


IIRC there was some discussion that Viking found something back in the 70's and not from the crackpot brigade either.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:
Bones McCracker wrote:
Nonsense. Venus has the hottest surface temperatures in the solar system (aside from the Sun). Our "scientists" are once again being ignorantly earth-centric in their thinking, trying to project our organic chemistry onto the rest of the universe. It is almost literally flat-earther stupidity.

It is much more rational to assume we do not understand the chemistry of Venus than to assume this indicates the presence of life.
:cry: :cry: :cry:
I was so excited! Now it is just an unknown mechanism of chemistry :cry:

But defending an idea nurtering my phantasy:
- Think of the saharian dust blown to amazonian forests. These particles take with them viruses protected from killing sun light and an amount of various minerals.
- Think of the atmosphere of Venus, which is much much thicker and with much much stronger winds.

If there is a higher layer of this atmosphere in stable orbit and this layer can hold tiny particles for a long time? Such particles would crash together softly every now and then. That is when a living population on one tiny particle of dust meets another on another tiny particle. Quickly these guys celebrate an orgy of sex with the other population in a tiny fraction of time. Like if we would meet other worlds with human populations every month for less than a day.

Yeah, it's theoretically possible that there is like a living fart-cloud floating around the upper atmosphere. But the very idea that terrestrial organic chemistry would form the basis of life on a planet with the atmospheric and surface conditions and chemistry seems absurdly terra-centric to me. I'm just saying this finding nudges the possibility of life on Venus a percent or two to the right, not like "omg there's life on Venus" or even "omg there's probably life on Venus".
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bones McCracker wrote:
seems absurdly terra-centric to me.


Basic speciesism. Fart cloud lives matter.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think the fart cloud can be a species, according to our "scientists", unless it's a gas-bag.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bones McCracker wrote:
I....... can be a...... gas-bag.

ftfy :lol: :lol: :lol: :wink:
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lmao :lol: :lol:
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bones McCracker wrote:
lmao :lol: :lol:
Hey. At least you are not This guy
:wink:
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a colonoscopy last week.
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