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Fulgurance
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:25 am    Post subject: Advices to buy new laptop Reply with quote

Hello, actually my laptop have some problems and he doesn't age well. I would like to stop to fight with optimus technology.
I have question: open source support is it better with AMD ? Open source driver for AMD can have same performance as proprietary driver ? I ask this question because i need to have very good performance, i program often, i use virtualisation and sometimes i play 3D game.

Do you know some mark or have you got some advices ?
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jpsollie
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Advices to buy new laptop Reply with quote

Fulgurance wrote:
Hello, actually my laptop have some problems and he doesn't age well. I would like to stop to fight with optimus technology.
I have question: open source support is it better with AMD ?

They certainly put a lot more effort in maintaining their opensource kernel drivers compared to Nvidia, on the other hand, Nvidia cards are simply more powerful. And their closed-source drivers work fine.
Quote:

Open source driver for AMD can have same performance as proprietary driver ?

Amdgpu-Pro drivers have more added value for workstations & GPU computing, but for other things, there's mostly no difference
Quote:

I ask this question because i need to have very good performance, i program often, i use virtualisation and sometimes i play 3D game.

Do you know some mark or have you got some advices ?

If you want GPU power and use a laptop, you'll need to go the Nvidia way. You may take a look at the radeon page on Wikipedia & pick a mobile chip you'd want in your laptop, but choices on the market for a dedicated AMD GPU are pretty limited[/quote][/bug]
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Hu
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Advices to buy new laptop Reply with quote

jpsollie wrote:
They certainly put a lot more effort in maintaining their opensource kernel drivers compared to Nvidia, on the other hand, Nvidia cards are simply more powerful. And their closed-source drivers work fine.
As I understand it, nVidia doesn't update their closed source drivers for all the various kernel combinations users may try to use. Support for a new major release may lag, requiring users to wait to update their kernel until an update from nVidia is available. For some people, this is a major nuisance. For other people, this does not matter at all.
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Ionen
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Advices to buy new laptop Reply with quote

Hu wrote:
jpsollie wrote:
They certainly put a lot more effort in maintaining their opensource kernel drivers compared to Nvidia, on the other hand, Nvidia cards are simply more powerful. And their closed-source drivers work fine.
As I understand it, nVidia doesn't update their closed source drivers for all the various kernel combinations users may try to use. Support for a new major release may lag, requiring users to wait to update their kernel until an update from nVidia is available. For some people, this is a major nuisance. For other people, this does not matter at all.
They typically update it fairly fast for the main branch drivers, usually it just means that you won't be able to use the x.x.0 of "some" new kernel branches without patches. 450.xx (along with simultaneous 440.100 release) with fix for 5.8.0 did wait a bit longer than usual given 450 was a major release with many changes.

Sometimes they fix it ahead of time based on -rc kernels too, although last time that happened a last minute -rcX change broke it again :|

The bigger problem with their drivers is how they eventually drop support for old cards. Like if you want to use a 560ti from 2011 you need 390.xx drivers, and then support for 390.xx branch will end in December 2022... eventually it'll be too broken to use with modern software, gentoo will drop it as well, and you'll be left on your own without anyone being able to fix closed source drivers (can still use nouveau but it has its own issues). 390.xx with offloading is already pretty much broken in gentoo but fine with modern drivers from what I hear. Not necessarily an issue if you replace/upgrade hardware every decades (I'm personally happy with nvidia-drivers on linux for my desktop, used with a 560ti before and now using a 1070) but for hard to upgrade laptops it makes it a more questionable choice.
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Hu
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ionen, thank you for the correction regarding timeliness. I had thought that the inability to use an x.x.0 release was a near certainty, with support for x.x.y lagging by up to a few weeks.
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Ionen
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hu wrote:
I had thought that the inability to use an x.x.0 release was a near certainty, with support for x.x.y lagging by up to a few weeks.
Well my saying of "some" was a bit much, won't deny it still happen often (especially recently with a bad streak, I recall 5.0.0 through 5.3.0 were fine for latest drivers), it is notably broken with 5.9-rc3 right now (just tested it) so unless we get a new drivers release before 5.9.0 comes out it's probably happening again :) I imagine official fix for 450.xx will likely be out by the time 5.9.1 release, but 440.xx and 390.xx be left in the dust.
Edit: seems there's already early patches to use it with 5.9, not that gentoo ever include those in ebuilds and instead warn about unsupported kernel versions

Update: 450.80.02 and 455.xx which released before 5.9 came out fixed the build ahead of time :)


Last edited by Ionen on Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Clad in Sky
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:12 am    Post subject: Re: Advices to buy new laptop Reply with quote

Fulgurance wrote:
Hello, actually my laptop have some problems and he doesn't age well. I would like to stop to fight with optimus technology.
I have question: open source support is it better with AMD ? Open source driver for AMD can have same performance as proprietary driver ? I ask this question because i need to have very good performance, i program often, i use virtualisation and sometimes i play 3D game.

Do you know some mark or have you got some advices ?

Lenovo just started selling laptops with Fedora preinstalled. Either use it or wipe Fedora and install a Linux you like.
System76 specializes in Linux laptops
If you're in Germany (don't know if they're doing international business) Tuxedo computers also has nice Linux laptops.
Dell also sell Linux laptops.

These are the ones I can think of at the moment. However, most laptops will work. Just look out for the specs. Depending on the 3D game you play, you might need one with a real graphics card, not integrated (although the mobile ryzen cpus with integrated graphics seem to work very well).
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Antikapitalista
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:21 am    Post subject: Re: Advices to buy new laptop Reply with quote

Fulgurance wrote:
... or have you got some advices ?

Where are you from?
The availability of various options depends on it.

They also depend on the screen size (hereafter measured diagonally), on which, the weight depends most. If you need a 17-inch screen, the laptop may weigh about 2.5 kg, if you need a 15.6-inch screen, the laptop may weigh about 2 kg, if you need a 14-inch screen, the laptop may weigh about 1.6 kg... with a dedicated GPU; they are lighter without one.
If you need a lighter laptop, you will have do without a dedicated GPU. (Perhaps like my sister, who considers a laptop weighing a mere 1.4 kg as too heavy, comparing everything with her old MacBook Air, despite the fact that the era of 1.1 kg laptops is long gone...)
If exceptional portability required, consider something like the HP Envy x360 13-ay0004nc. The closest that comes to it is the HP Envy x360 13-ay0021nr, you can find some review of it on Youtube, too.

Clad in Sky wrote:
If you're in Germany (don't know if they're doing international business) Tuxedo computers also has nice Linux laptops.

If you are in the EU, Schenker also offers some nice, custom-built laptops, with a dedicated GeForce GPU (the monstrous Schenker XMG APEX 15 with an AMD Ryzen 9 3950X and a Refreshed Nvidia GeForce RTX 2070; Schenker XMG 15 with an AMD Ryzen 7 4800H and a Refreshed Nvidia GeForce RTX 2060, Schenker Media 15 with an AMD Ryzen 5 4600H and a Refreshed Nvidia GeForce RTX 2060) and without one (Schenker VIA 15 Pro).
Bolded, because if you really feel like you would like to do without a dedicated do without a dedicated GeForce GPU, this is probably the best laptop for a Linux user... Besides, it also features a 91Wh battery. I think that they were also considering adding a 4K OLED display as a possible, selectable option, but I do not know how it turned out in the end, if there seemed to be sufficient interest in it, or not.
Oops, while checking the availability of that option, not only did I find out that there is no such option yet, but that it was sold out and you would have to wait until the turn of October and November this year.

The advantage of a custom-built laptop is that you do not have to pay the Windows tax and that you can choose your own components. For example, I was shocked to read in a review that the much-praised Asus ROG Zephyrus G14 featured only some Intel QLC SSD—holy crap, indeed; it really thought that Asustek could do better, but no, seriously, they put what is probably the worst of the worst that I could possibly think of, into a premium-range laptop that costs perhaps as much as 1500 €...
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Juippisi
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If possible shipping to you, I'd suggest using Tuxedo

https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/Linux-Hardware/Linux-Notebooks/10-14-inch/TUXEDO-Pulse-14-Gen1.tuxedo

Really powerful Ryzen laptops with working HW for Linux. You can choose to ship it without windows, and without any linux pre-installed if you want to install Gentoo instead. But it comes with other distros pre-installed too.
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fedeliallalinea
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Juippisi wrote:
If possible shipping to you, I'd suggest using Tuxedo

You have already tried it? I am seriously interested in the Pulse 15 model but I wanted to know about someone who had really experienced it
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pietinger
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fedeliallalinea wrote:
You have already tried it?

Yes, I have a Tuxedo Notebook (BC1703; 5 years old) and it works like a charme.
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Fulgurance
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many replies ! Thanks ! I live in France if that can help you. But in October, i go to leave in London.

This product is very interesting for the price: https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/Linux-Hardware/Linux-Notebooks/10-14-inch/TUXEDO-Pulse-14-Gen1.tuxedo

AMD ryzen 7 have globally the same performance as intel processor ?

And AMD Radeon™ RX Vega 7 Graphics as nvidia ?

Schenker is interesting !
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