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Naib
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:19 pm    Post subject: Guns 2018: FBI "Hold my beer" Reply with quote

EDIT: Split from Grieving community pleads for end to gun carnage --pjp

Meanwhile in the USA ... https://www.denverpost.com/2018/06/02/fbi-mile-high-spirits-shooting/
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would appear that his service weapon is not a Glock.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
It would appear that his service weapon is not a Glock.
While I realize that was a joke (and probably one that I would have made as well). It could have been, the video was not quite clear enough to make out its details. It was clear enough to show that it discharged when he pulled the trigger while retrieving it. If he turns out to actually be an off duty FBI agent he should be scheduled for remedial firearms training; first because that is not how to pick up a firearm, and secondly because he should know better than to prance and flop around with a live sidearm without having it positively retained.

Apropos the FBI, a little something for cokey's reading list: https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2018/5/21/fbi-report-highlights-effectiveness-of-concealed-carry/.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks like he grabbed the trigger when he went to pick it up. Judging by how it went off without asking questions, I'd say it was a Glock.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hadn't seen the video when I posted, only incomplete descriptions (or maybe I didn't read enough). Given the description of events with the back-flip, I may have connected the dots. I guess the judgement involved for the events to transpire shouldn't shock me that he shot someone when picking it up.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can actually backflip with certain holsters. Alien Gear's ShapeShift IWB is one. A screw sets how much of a clamp the holster maintains on the weapon.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about no backflipping while drunk and carrying a firearm?

Too sensible?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
You can actually backflip with certain holsters. Alien Gear's ShapeShift IWB is one. A screw sets how much of a clamp the holster maintains on the weapon.
Sure, it is possible with some, the thing is that his evidently was either not one of them or was at the least not adjusted properly. Regardless of what holster he was using, it was insufficiently secure for whatever it was he was doing.

notageek wrote:
How about no backflipping while drunk and carrying a firearm?

Too sensible?
In his defense, he might not have been drunk, perhaps he was simply demonstrating that the FBI has special agents, in the politically correct sense of the term.
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cokey
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

desultory wrote:
Apropos the FBI, a little something for cokey's reading list: https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2018/5/21/fbi-report-highlights-effectiveness-of-concealed-carry/.
As was stated before, concealed carry leads to an increase of 15% in violent crime
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokey wrote:
desultory wrote:
Apropos the FBI, a little something for cokey's reading list: https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2018/5/21/fbi-report-highlights-effectiveness-of-concealed-carry/.
As was stated before, concealed carry leads to an increase of 15% in violent crime

You know, when I petitioned the site administrators for your return to the forums, having you fabricate outright lies isn't what I had in mind.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, to say it with a movie quote: "Guns don't kill people. People kill people". It's true. But how much more secure can your life get if you allow untrained civilians (itchy and trigger-happy?) to carry guns? Or even concealed guns? Common sense demands to expect disasters.

...so the USA has more unintentional gun deaths (like accidents) than other western countries have total gun deaths... See the gun violence archive about how the USA are doing so far this year.

It is just not good to allow any crook to buy a gun, when they don't even know how to handle it. Some sort of basic training and some practical exam on the shooting range should be mandatory at least.

Keep your guns if you must, but make sure you know what you are doing.
https://edition.cnn.com/2017/06/19/health/child-gun-violence-study/index.html wrote:
As for unintentional firearm injuries, Weiser said, the third-grade girl he treated was not the only accidental gunshot wound he saw in a child. Another such injury involved a boy around 9 who was given a handgun for his birthday.

"He shot his 6-year-old brother, playing in the backyard", Weiser said, adding that the new study findings show that boys are much more likely to be injured by firearms than girls.
How sick is that?
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The US has more gun deaths because we have more guns, and we're keeping them so piss off. Europe has more genocide deaths.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bones McCracker wrote:
The US has more gun deaths because we have more guns
Cool! An American who admits the obvious! :)
So you agree that fewer guns lead to fewer gun deaths. Mission accomplished! :lol:
Bones McCracker wrote:
Europe has more genocide deaths.
Only because the brits invented the concentration camps. Unfortunately that concept became quite popular. But luckily it died out a few decades ago.

(Before somebody gets ideas, Guantanamo is a prison and not a concentration camp.)
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yamakuzure wrote:
Only because the brits invented the concentration camps. Unfortunately that concept became quite popular. But luckily it died out a few decades ago.

(Before somebody gets ideas, Guantanamo is a prison and not a concentration camp.)


Quote:

The United States set up concentration camps for Cherokee and other Native Americans in the 1830s.[7] In 1864, the U.S. government forced 8,000 Navajos to walk more than 300 miles at gunpoint from their ancestral homelands in northeastern Arizona and northwestern New Mexico to an internment camp in Bosque Redondo, a desolate tract on the Pecos River in eastern New Mexico.[8] From 1863 to 1868, the U.S. Military persecuted and imprisoned 9,500 Navajo and 500 Mescalero Apache. Living under armed guards, more than 3,500 Navajo and Mescalero Apache men, women, and children died from starvation and disease.[8]

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bones McCracker wrote:
The US has more gun deaths because we have more guns, and we're keeping them so piss off. Europe has more genocide deaths.

Europe has more genocide deaths because we have more genocides, and I don't get why you want keep the guns. Guns are not a good tool for genocides. There are far more effective methods.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The propensity to kill is to some extent bounded by social norms. There will always be some who just will, regardless of their surroundings. The choice of means is subject to many variables.

But on the subject of guns killing, there is sparse data that compares the number of guns required for a single murder. The Guardian approached this a while back, sort of. They used this UNODOC data.

Using that data to compare the use of guns in different countries will challenge some stereotypes.

In Japan, regularly touted as the panacea, there are 64,545 guns per gun murder.

The US, the most horrible place on earth, has 29,521 guns per gun murder.

Our friends to the south, Mexico has 1370 guns per gun murder. Think about that. It takes 21 times more guns in the US to kill someone than it does in Mexico. Or, put another way, in Mexico, someone with a gun is 21 times more likely to kill you than an American with a gun.

More? In El Salvador it only takes 163 guns to to cause a gun murder. They are 121 times more likely ...... well, you may get the idea.

Now our constrained cousins across the pond do fare better, some moreso than others.

Luxembourg, they have 23,333 guns per gun murder, fewer than the US, even though they have that twisted barrel revolver sculpture.

The Belgians, 25,714 guns per gun murder. Yup, more likely to be killed by a gun in Belgium than the US.

Now England and Wales are starting to get it, they have 82,926 guns per gun murder.

Germany? There it takes 158,227 guns to cause a gun murder.

The least effective or most civil guns are found in France, it takes 542,857 guns to cause 1 gun murder. It would appear that the average French citizen really does respect the life of another. More than half a million guns before the first murder. A German gun is about 3.5 times more murderous than a French gun.

Carry on ...


Last edited by flysideways on Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Left out the Netherlands, 9,272 guns per gun murder. A gun there is more than 3 times as likely to kill you than a gun in the US.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Norway has France beat at 700,000 guns per gun murder.

Of course in Canada it only takes 57,500 guns to have a gun murder. Why are their guns such savages?

Cognitive dissonance got your tongue?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess we can conclude that you guys are not very good at making deadly guns. No wonder your gun manufactures go bankrupt and your military has to license foreign designed guns.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yamakuzure wrote:
Bones McCracker wrote:
The US has more gun deaths because we have more guns
Cool! An American who admits the obvious! :)
So you agree that fewer guns lead to fewer gun deaths. Mission accomplished! :lol:
Bones McCracker wrote:
Europe has more genocide deaths.
Only because the brits invented the concentration camps. Unfortunately that concept became quite popular. But luckily it died out a few decades ago.

(Before somebody gets ideas, Guantanamo is a prison and not a concentration camp.)

Of course. Fewer guns, then, ceteris parabus, probably fewer gun deaths (people deaths in which the people used guns).

However:

1. all other things never remain equal, particularly when you interdependent variables, so the point is moot (as the studies have shown); by the way, did your world wars fit into anybody's steady-state equation for minimizing gun deaths? How about the Holocaust? Oh, wait; the holicaust was fine, from a "gun deaths" perspective. I forgot. Because the Jews didn't have guns. You know who else took guns away? Stalin and Mao. How about the billion killed by Communism? Wait, I forgot; that was for global peace and brotherhood.

2. Fuck the .0001% peacetime difference; we're keeping the guns anyway, to preserve our individual and collective liberty, so fuck off and go fight global warming by eating less broccoli or something.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh boy, you make yourself look so dense, it is actually really funny! :lol:

Your liberty is nothing. You are just an obedient tool, a happy slave of fear, nothing else. :lol:
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bones McCracker wrote:

2. Fuck the .0001% peacetime difference; we're keeping the guns anyway, to preserve our individual and collective liberty, so fuck off and go fight global warming by eating less broccoli or something.


Actually guns might be the best thing to ever happen. The more people getting killed, the better for the environment. It's how I usually end discussions with vegans. How they safe the world and all, while it's pretty clear I think, that eating humans is far more effective.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yamakuzure wrote:
Oh boy, you make yourself look so dense, it is actually really funny! :lol:

Your liberty is nothing. You are just an obedient tool, a happy slave of fear, nothing else. :lol:
Says the person who lives in a country that will throw him in jail for free speech.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yamakuzure wrote:
Oh boy, you make yourself look so dense, it is actually really funny! :lol:

Your liberty is nothing. You are just an obedient tool, a happy slave of fear, nothing else. :lol:

Why do you hate logic and rational discourse? Oh wait, I already know: because your position is irrational and purely emotional.

You are the collectivist-authoritarian, my friend, and you have no argument to support your position that does not boil down to (a) submit as a drone to the global ant-farm, or; (b) magic space daddy says so. I, on the other hand, am the one advocating the preservation of the basic individual human right to defend one's self and one's fellows.

So you've got it completely bacward -- it is YOU who are the obedient tool, and you don't even know it. This should be clear to you by your own broken logic: a silly ad hominem attack and an unsupported assertion which, as I have just very clearly demonstrated, is 180 degrees out from reality.

You've simply been programmed to knee jerk when you hear trigger words like "Liberty", so that you are unable to stop and consider for yourself whether there might be some sense to what's being said. You are opposed to human rights, and you can't explain why without babbling utter nonsense. And, you aren't even capable of thinking, "hey, am I?", even for a moment. Think about it.

Also, given where you come from, one would hope you people might have learned something about collectivist-authoritarianism and the importance of protecting individual rights, but I guess you lot are just destined to be a herd of one color vs. another, as opposed to human beings.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why am I an obedient drone for having the option to return fire?
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